It has been calculated that just the right wind would have set up a seiche that would have parted one of the Bitter Lakes along the current route of the Suez Canal. Exodus does mention the use of wind to part the “sea”. (I read reference to the study in a rather unfortunate article that combined the attitude of “all I need to know about the Old Testament I learned from someone who had heard of Marcion” with “no god of the no gaps”.)
The geography of the exodus as recorded in the Pentateuch fits with Sinai. Again, the number of people involved, from geography, archaeology, and more cautious translation (‘clan’ rather than ‘thousand’, etc.) is tens of thousands, not millions.
Cultures do evolve over time. But that evolution is far less constrained in mechanisms and connectivity than biological evolution, and they are commonly impacted by invasions. Claims that cultures automatically evolve along a regular pattern are historically dishonest. Like earth history, human history is not humanly predictable in many aspects.
In this thread is when I finally understood that the golden calf is about 4 inches tall which made more sense when using Jewelry when making this golden calf.
I appreciate this thread for being here, allowing me to interact with you all so I can learn this; thank you
However now I also realize from this thread, that its important to research further when seeing art., due to my confusion, when earlier, I saw artist exaggerate showing golden calf extremely huge., how come I couldn’t known this., how come I thought artist don’t exaggerate, but seek to show what writers are seeking to communicate? My personal Journey of learning, how people articulate, and this is my learning recently about artists., it puzzle me though who all are allowed to exaggerate; is it only artist who can?
So yes it is important for me to research further.
Now here that we see: this artist is showing through art, what all is being communicated in this art I see?
I so much want to say India but I can’t due to that name didn’t exist back when. All I can say is Indus Valley., So when you claim this solves many problems of Exodus., you mean how it’ll stop the fighting right? Can you expand more on that if that’s what you mean?
Actually any body can exaggerate, artist, writer, speaker, film maker. It is up to you to filter this, cross check other sources, and just use your plain common sense.
The religious conflicts today are rooted in the claims of exclusivity. Jews claim they are the only chosen people. Christians claim Jesus is the only saviour. Muslims claim mohammad was the final prophet. Hindus do not have such claim. So if we can show that all these religions emerge from this common philosophical and secular view of hinduism, then we may be able to get these religions to reconsider their ideas of exclusivity. There are many other degradations in Hinduism that we need not espouse. That may help the abrahamic religions to reject exclusivity.
Christians acknowledge that Jews are God’s chosen people. No problem there.
If we believe that Jesus is the only way to the Father (whether or not a person knows it), why would we reject it? I’m pretty sure that nobody here wants to change their religion and become a Hindu.
btw, why don’t you ask Hindus to reject the caste system?
//The religious conflicts today are rooted in the claims of exclusivity.// Not true//
When a person thinks that she is superior—it shows others as inferior—and (rightly) brings about a reaction against the person. This is the sources of conflict among the three Abrahamic religions each claiming exclusivity though somewhat differently. In my study this was the true cause of the Jewish Exile, Inquisitions, Holocaust and Jihad.
//Jews claim they are the only chosen people.//Christians acknowledge that Jews are God’s chosen people. No problem there.//
But Muslims and Hindus do not acknowledge this special status of the Jews. It is abhorrent to me that an all-loving God would place a lineage-based people above others irrespective of their conduct.
//That may help the abrahamic religions to reject exclusivity.// If we believe that Jesus is the only way to the Father (whether or not a person knows it), why would we reject it?//
The reason to reject the claim of “only” is that it is abhorrent and it was never made. This is a political presentation of Jesus that has been created by his followers for their political gains.
//I’m pretty sure that nobody here wants to change their religion and become a Hindu. btw, why don’t you ask Hindus to reject the caste system?//
Did I ever ask anyone to change to Hinduism? I do not want any proselytization. All religions must reform themselves and jettison their political interpretations in favour of spiritual interpretations. I do not hold a brief for the Hindus yet we must acknowledge that caste has been removed from the Indian Constitution and we are far ahead of some western countries like the US that are unable to remove racism.
//The carryover from general Near Eastern religion into Judaism is not generally theological but ritual. For example, it’s assumed in the Pentateuch that everyone knows something about the general types of sacrifices, but here’s how to properly offer them to YHWH. “You’re already familiar with the basic idea of a portable tabernacle, but here are the details.” Those aspects of Judaism have largely been lost in practice with the destruction of the Second Temple.//
We will see many other parallels if we move beyond near-eastern to far eastern. The Tabernacle is almost identical with the fire sacrifice of the Hindus. The cherubim over the tabernacle are parallel to Hindu devtas. The golden calf is a mirror image of cow worship. The idea of One God Elohim and personal god Yahweh are same as One Brahman and many Brahmas of the Hindus.
//It has been calculated that just the right wind would have set up a seiche that would have parted one of the Bitter Lakes along the current route of the Suez Canal. Exodus does mention the use of wind to part the “sea”. (I read reference to the study in a rather unfortunate article that combined the attitude of “all I need to know about the Old Testament I learned from someone who had heard of Marcion” with “no god of the no gaps”.)//
I recall the wind speed required is about 115 miles per hour. It would be impossible to cross the lake in such high winds. Further, it does not explain why the Pharaoh would not simply circuit around the Bitter Lakes and confront the Hebrews as they come out on the other side. It also does no match with the Hebrews NOT taking the short route. The Bitter Lakes are located ON the shrt route.
//The geography of the exodus as recorded in the Pentateuch fits with Sinai. Again, the number of people involved, from geography, archaeology, and more cautious translation (‘clan’ rather than ‘thousand’, etc.) is tens of thousands, not millions.//
There is no volcano in Sinai. The area was under Egyptian suzerainty at that time. There is no archaeological evidence along the route. There are no bitter waters of Marah between Yam Suf I and Sinai. There is no Yam Suf II and Yam Suf III.
Instead of “misappropriation” it may solve many riddles of the Exodus. The crossing of the Reed Sea could be the Indus River. Bitter waters of Marah could be those near Kabul. Sinai could be Taftan. There is an ancient place named Paran near Isfahan. The second Yam Suf could be Shatt al-Arab.
Your studies are flawed. Hindus are involved in religious wars. And the Hindu caste system is hierarchical, with some castes superior to others. [moderated]
It doesn’t mean the Jews are superior. But in your caste system some castes are considered superior to others.
Jesus claimed that he was the only way to the Father. Do you want a reference?
You’re pushing Hinduism and criticizing our religion. That’s proselytization.
Who are you to preach at us?
The caste system is part the Hindu faith.
The caste system is racist and is part of the Hindu faith.
Hindus do not kill innnocents like Floyd.
Jesus never said he was the only saviour.
Let us discuss exodus, please, instead of going in tangents. Peace and cheers.
Thanks for the mellow response. So police killing innocent blacks is not racism, but Brahmins not drinking water from shudra (if that be the case) is discrimination? Oh. Come on.
I will respond to John if you start a new string.
Thx.
What is hardened heart in relation with words exclusion and inclusion, can you expand on this within the Exodus era?
Exodus 9:12
But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses
Exodus 9:13
Then the LORD said to Moses, “Get up early in the morning, confront Pharaoh and say to him, ‘This is what the LORD, the God of the Hebrews, says: Let my people go, so that they may worship me
I randomly landed on your message and read and I have no understanding at all what I just read.
I look up what is hyperbolic, and bing search engine explains = relating to a hyperbola = (of a function, e.g., a cosine) having the same relation to a rectangular hyperbola as the unqualified function does to a circle = (of language) exaggerated; hyperbolical
So question as I’ll look further into this., what is hyperbolic reading of the numbers relation to Exodus?
Next question as I understand God light as true time and true currency: what is hyperbolic reading of the numbers in relation to true time and true currency?
What I do with Exodus and with any books is ask what can I learn from this? Is this what you do with Exodus too, or what do you do with Exodus?
While a hyperbola is indeed a mathematical curve (one of the conics), hyperbole (your definition #2) is the one you’re after here: it means an exaggeration. I’m not sure those two meaning have any common etymology or root meanings, but on the surface they appear unrelated to each other. And the adjective hyperbolic applies to both of the meanings. So we pick the 2nd one here because of context.
What people usually mean by hyperbolic reading of the numbers given in Exodus (or Genesis) is the presumption that numbers were chosen for significance other than providing what we would call a factual count. Forty was often a value symbolic of “completeness” to the Hebrews, so when they divided Moses’ life into three periods of 40 years each - maybe Moses actually lived that long, and his pivotal life moments may have landed exactly on those year markers … or maybe they were assigned that way by later redacters because … you know … Moses. Or did the Israelites really wipe out every last one of …? The text sometimes indicates so directly, but then later we hear of such and such, not only existing, but sometimes even becoming part of the later Israelite story or genealogies! So sometimes hyperbole is more explicit - as the text itself later provides means of seeing that. Or sometimes we may merely suspect it (as with Moses’ given ages). Narrative contests back then did not expect to win any points or admiration by claiming: “well, our God mostly prevailed over all you and your gods … we managed to defeat 2/3 of you!” No. No. Just as cheerleaders in sporting events today wouldn’t be caught dead giving a cheer like “we might beat you …” or “our team is mostly better than yours,” they instead go with the more predictable narrative “we’re gonna mop the court with you; our victory will be complete and final!” My God is bigger than your god. Go team!
That’s probably the explanation for most ‘hyperbolic’ style readings, though others can get more complicated and numerologists love having a field day with patriarchal ages in Genesis and such. But there you have it.
Isfahan is located in today’s country Iran, if I understand correctly from looking at the map, right?
How would you word this so you can use today’s countries while also articulating from the past Exodus era? So I can use countries of today, when explaining locations from the Exodus era, can you give me examples?
