Where did I get this information, from images from artists online…
Later when reading jewelry was used, and realized this Calf was around 3 inches tall.
How come so many artists give false archaeological details about size of golden Calf, when only jewelry was used?
Here’s an example how unrealistic artists are: showing an extremely huge golden Calf, that’s made from Jewelry
imaginehttps://i.pinimg.com/736x/ac/6e/5b/ac6e5bb74f390773102586ed6d0df744.jpg
The purpose of art isn’t to record accurate data. If you want to know actual data consult scholarly sources and not a Hollywood movie.
MSR and KMT have no vowels, because vowels hadn’t been invented yet, correct? What was India called without Vowels?
The Greek ruler Ptolemy was living in Egypt.
The 70 Jewish Priests were living in Yisrael.
How much power does Yisrael have, to keep the Torah to themselves? Or was Yisrael seeking to share the Torah with Egypt? How come Ptolemy was so interested in the Torah?
There no name for “India” since they were living there. Mistrayim=Mathura and other similar citi names are attested. the 70 priests too were living in Egypt, I believe.
I don’t understand how this is relavant, though we do have very different ideas of an Exodus.
I’m still not sure why it would be India; are there certain cultural and religious traditions and symbols of Vedic India featured in the Exodus narrative that suggest that the Jews were in the subcontinent as slaves?
There are two possibilities of identifying Mitsrayim: “Misr”=Egypt; or Mathura=Indus Valley. If Misr is not attested before 1300 BCE; and Mathura is attested from 2000 BCE or earlier then it is more likely that Mitsrayim was located in the Indus Valley.
Indus Valley is a possibility because many problems of the Exodus get resolved: The first Yam Suf could be the Indus River; the Sinai Volcano could be Taftan; the second Yam Suf could be the Shatt al-Arab. Then we have parallels between Adam and Swayambhu Manu, Noah and Vivaswat Manu; and Abraham and Rama. Hence it is possible that Adam-NOah-Abraham-Moses lived in Indus Valley and Moses led the Exodus from there. Thx.
How desperate for significance we are that we take a remote ancient culture’s myths and make them our truths. Guilty. Like the vast majority of evangelicalism. Myths that were ancient at the time of Christianity’s founding myth. The unaddressed embracing of them undermines the credibility of the latter now, even though the founder had no option.
Hi! Thanks for responding!
Or perhaps this word for Egypt is a retrojection; it wouldn’t be the first in the OT.
Why not a shallow string of lakes or the East Nile Delta?
Gods are often said to reside on mountains; the smoke and weather could be theological.
True in that they were both the first man, but there is no cycle of Adams and no concept of any Fall for the first Manu.
True, but the inspiration behind this story most likely came from Mesopotamia.
But Abraham was just a man, not a beautiful incarnation of a deity who smote a demon king.
I thought Mitsayim was located in Indus Valley India., during the Exodus era, now I learn there’s no name India during the Exodus era., is there no name Pakistan too, during Exodus era too?
I am correct that Mitsrayim is in Indus Valley India now correct?
About Mitsrayim during Exodus era:
Place: Chanhu Daro that’s in Pakistan now but no Pakistan during Exodus era correct
Semitic Name: Mitsrayim (in the narrative of Moses)
Hindu Name: Mathura
However from Chanhu Daro Pakistan, Mitsrayim extends further southwest of the lands, Goshen and Rameses - that’s India or is that Pakistan now?
Because now Mitsrayim is located southeast Pakistan and northwest India
I hope I understand this now
Some myths are true and to be embraced gladly.
//Or perhaps this word for Egypt is a retrojection; it wouldn’t be the first in the OT.//
Yes, retrojection is possible. However, a plainly speaking Mathura still stands on a higher pedestal than a retrojected Misr.
//The first Yam Suf could be the Indus River. Why not a shallow string of lakes or the East Nile Delta?//
There would be no need to cross the marshy lakes when one could circuit around them on dry land. Also the Pharaoh need not follow them knowing they will come out on the other side. Also there is no natural event corresponding to separation of waters. On the other hand eruption of a mud volcano—known in the area—could have led to the separation of waters as described in the Bible.
//the Sinai Volcano could be Taftan. Gods are often said to reside on mountains; the smoke and weather could be theological.//
Possible. But in the first instance we must look at what is staring in our eyes.
//parallels between Adam and Swayambhu Manu. True in that they were both the first man, but there is no cycle of Adams and no concept of any Fall for the first Manu.//
While looking at parallels, I feel that methodologically we must give more importance to geographical, archaeological, etymological information, narratives and living traditions than theological constructs. Theology must come last because it is most influenced by contemporary developments. Further, the numbers of Prophets are parallel to numbers of Avataras. The fall of Adam is a true difference that has to be considered.
//Noah and Vivaswat Manu. True, but the inspiration behind this story most likely came from Mesopotamia.//
The Jewish tradition holds that the flood took place in early October. The floods in India take place in July-Oct while in Iraq in spring. Secondly, the flood waters do not stay for 150 days in Iraq which has an open channel to the sea to drain the waters. The city of Jalore (“Water City”) in India is located in a bowl-like geological formation and even normal rain waters stay for 2 months.
//Abraham and Rama. But Abraham was just a man, not a beautiful incarnation of a deity who smote a demon king.// Again the parallels in etymological information, narratives and living traditions, I suggest, dominate the differences in theological constructs. Further, as said above, the numbers of Prophets are parallel to numbers of Avataras.
Thanks for this dialogue.
India and Pakistan are modern names of the Indus Valley Civilization. Goshen and Rameses too would be located in the Indus Valley.
Oh, and what does any of this misappropriation have to do with Jesus the Gospel?
Thank you for explaining this. I think I understand now. I really learn a lot from you, but it takes me a little bit longer to understand., especially when it feels all confusing because names from past, present, and how one location combines areas of two countries.
I surely over time had improved reading maps., had a lot of fun at google maps looking up these places and learn that one can click on videos at google map and see many videos that people uploaded in that area., I had a sense of location through their videos at google map
Ruach Ha-kodesh lives in us all and including years past during Exodus era., as none of us is separated as we’re all connected spiritually, I allow Ruach Ha-kodesh teach me
I learn later the golden calf is about 4 inches tall. That makes more sense due to only using Jewelry. Wow I never heard of a bellows., I look that up and that makes wind. Online it explains Bellow is a device with an air bag that emits a stream of air when squeezed together with two handles, used for blowing air into a fire
You really know how to do all this
I was looking at the wooden stove here at my dad’s place., is there a bellow here., I don’t see one. I’ll look more later I’ll also ask my dad if he uses a bellow, I just see a poke device., its been years sense that wooden stove was used
Oh I just asked my dad and he said no, he’ll never use a bellow for this wooden stove., its mainly for heating., one can cook on it, but its mainly for heating
King David had Canaanite blood in him right?
What practices continues from the Canaanite, are there any Canaanite practices today?
I believe Ruach Ha-Kodesh lives in everyone and Ruach Ha-Kodesh lives in those people during Exodus era., do you believe this too?
Both Tamar and Rahab in David’s ancestry were Canaanite, at least in the more general sense. Cannanite is sometimes used as a general term for the inhabitants of Canaan and sometimes as one of a list of several peoples in the region. The Bible does not record whether they fit the more restricted definition of Canaanite.
Although there are claims that significant components of Judaism derived from Canaanite practices (e.g., the fantasy that Zadok was Jebusite), there is not a significant component of what is known to be specifically Canaanite in religion that survives today. (Of course, the fact that we have limited data on the Canaanites means that confident conclusions are quite limited) The carryover from general Near Eastern religion into Judaism is not generally theological but ritual. For example, it’s assumed in the Pentateuch that everyone knows something about the general types of sacrifices, but here’s how to properly offer them to YHWH. “You’re already familiar with the basic idea of a portable tabernacle, but here are the details.” Those aspects of Judaism have largely been lost in practice with the destruction of the Second Temple.
Probably a number of Canaanite practices for everyday practical life in the area of Israel continue, at least until the advent of modern technology. And of course, use of an alphabet continues quite widely.
The idea that the Holy Spirit lives in everyone needs careful qualification. In one sense, God is at work in everyone - “in Him we live and move and have our being”. But there is also a sense in which the Spirit is not present in unbelievers. Although the differences are sometimes exaggerated, there seems to be a difference in degree or pattern in the Spirit’s presence with believers after Pentecost.
It has been calculated that just the right wind would have set up a seiche that would have parted one of the Bitter Lakes along the current route of the Suez Canal. Exodus does mention the use of wind to part the “sea”. (I read reference to the study in a rather unfortunate article that combined the attitude of “all I need to know about the Old Testament I learned from someone who had heard of Marcion” with “no god of the no gaps”.)
The geography of the exodus as recorded in the Pentateuch fits with Sinai. Again, the number of people involved, from geography, archaeology, and more cautious translation (‘clan’ rather than ‘thousand’, etc.) is tens of thousands, not millions.
Cultures do evolve over time. But that evolution is far less constrained in mechanisms and connectivity than biological evolution, and they are commonly impacted by invasions. Claims that cultures automatically evolve along a regular pattern are historically dishonest. Like earth history, human history is not humanly predictable in many aspects.
Art is communication that I learn from.
In this thread is when I finally understood that the golden calf is about 4 inches tall which made more sense when using Jewelry when making this golden calf.
I appreciate this thread for being here, allowing me to interact with you all so I can learn this; thank you 
However now I also realize from this thread, that its important to research further when seeing art., due to my confusion, when earlier, I saw artist exaggerate showing golden calf extremely huge., how come I couldn’t known this., how come I thought artist don’t exaggerate, but seek to show what writers are seeking to communicate? My personal Journey of learning, how people articulate, and this is my learning recently about artists., it puzzle me though who all are allowed to exaggerate; is it only artist who can?
So yes it is important for me to research further.
Now here that we see: this artist is showing through art, what all is being communicated in this art I see?
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/sionabenjamin3.jpg
I so much want to say India but I can’t due to that name didn’t exist back when. All I can say is Indus Valley., So when you claim this solves many problems of Exodus., you mean how it’ll stop the fighting right? Can you expand more on that if that’s what you mean?
“Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” -Colossians 4:6
This is a place for gracious dialogue about science and faith. Please read our FAQ/Guidelines before posting.
