Thanks for your opinion, Liam.
We don’t agree, but I respect your rights.
We don’t agree on the risk of a gradual degradation of rights.
That doesn’t make either of us wrong, just part of a society of diversity.
We do not respect your right to be rebellious against societal welfare in the name of “personal freedom” and the society’s right to impose mandates. Motorcycle helmet laws keep law enforcement, medical, insurance and legal costs down for everyone.
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Could you define that term?
Does it include civil discourse?
Not if it includes the refusal to accept intelligent arguments. Oh, and statistics.
See how it progresses?
A person who doesn’t agree with your arguments is guilty of rebellion.
The penalty for rebellion is death in some countries.
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Especially if masks and vaccinations are refused. That is the USA, dear.
No, “it could be argued …”, just as you’re trying to argue that Sweden’s approach was correct. It isn’t an “opinion” that Sweden’s death rate far exceeds its neighbors. Apples to apples, as they say. Maybe you should try reading the scientific article instead of the propaganda piece put out by a biased think tank. Since you’re big on “personal freedom” and individual rights, start here:
This Swedish laissez-faire strategy has had a large human cost for the Swedish society. However, relying on public responsibility seemed to have worked to some extent as a consequence of the Swedish high trust in authorities.
The Swedish government advised people to stay home and quarantine for at least 7 days if they had symptoms. Since Swedes have a high trust in government and authority, they at least followed that advice. That’s why covid spread at a “moderate” pace. Could Americans have followed even that simple directive? Well, do Americans generally have a high trust in governmental authority? Lol.
If you want to compare apples to apples in the States, we can start here:
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I don’t recall writing that. I think I wrote “would work.”
Perhaps the difference is in whether “quality of life” is a reasonable factor in decisions.
Okay. Some “quality of life” facts from Sweden’s failed approach:
Many elderly people were administered morphine instead of oxygen despite available supplies, effectively ending their lives…
The decision to provide end-of-life care to many older adults is highly questionable; very few elderly have been hospitalised for COVID-19. Appropriate (potentially life-saving) treatment was withheld without medical examination, and without informing the patient or his/her family or asking permission.
In addition, there were triage instructions available in Stockholm region, showing that individuals with comorbidities, body mass index above 40 kg/m2, older age (80+) were not to be admitted to intensive care units, since “they were unlikely to recover.”
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Would it be a topic deserving of civil discourse for you if the topic was the exploitation of underaged actors to receive payment for work in pornographic movies? Would you be equally glib about arguing for their right to self determination?
When you say you just don’t know what to do about people who won’t take responsibility for their actions is that a theological position you hold as a Christian or is that a political stance?
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Mark, I have not been glib, but I see your post that way.
In a civil discourse of child pornography, I will be on the side arguing for the protection of children from exploitation.
That is not what I wrote. Please read my post again.
Here is what I wrote:
“Well, I don’t know how to help people who can’t interpret what their personal responsibilities are.
I suppose people who can’t decide what their personal responsibilities are must be especially reliant on others to direct them.”
Why did you misrepresent what I wrote?
Well I didn’t quote you but only paraphrased how I heard what you wrote. I agree that is not what you wrote.
I guess it is because you found what I wrote glib that you didn’t bother to respond to my points. Fine. Let’s not waste each other’s time.
That is a good plan
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how can people be so unfair to normalise data. That really screws the conspiracy therorists 
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In Finland, the neighbor of Sweden, Covid restrictions have been abandoned during the last months. Covid has not disappeared but the current virus strand seems to be milder than the previous ones. Yet, deaths have increased because the restrictions stopped, as can be seen in the graph sent by Jay.
There are two reasons why the strategy was changed.
First, the current situation does not endanger the capacity of hospitals. The primary purpose of restrictions was to make the peak of infections flat, to ensure that hospitals can treat all patients.
Second, current estimate is that covid is here to stay. We cannot get rid of it, we just have to adapt to the situation. Older people are given new shots with a few months intervals, younger ones less often. My parents have received four shots, I got three. Vaccinated people often get Covid but for them, it is not usually deadly, just like a new form of flu or influenza.
When the restrictions ended, many of those who had been careful and avoided it previously got it. I know many who are currently sick or had the disease earlier in March-April. Even in the church responsibilities have jumped temporarily from one to another because many have been sick or had/have a family member positive. Yet, very few have died because most are vaccinated and the strand seems to be milder.
Although deaths have increased, Covid is seldom in news. Ukraine has been the number one news topic, so there has not been much interest in the Covid.
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