Struggling with scientific doubts but feeling a spiritual pull back — anyone else?

[Argon]

OSAS feels like NTS*.

*No True Scotsman

[klw]

Interesting analogy. Yeah, it seems to be that rationalization in many cases.

Perhaps different in my denomination (Mennonites) where people are thought to have the free will that they can actually choose to end a relationship with God (i.e., apostatize). In other words, we believe that faith requires and active and ongoing commitment to the relationship.

[Kendel]

Once saved always saved is based on a loose form of Calvinism. Calvinistic-leaning Baptists, who often refer to it, are less concerned about the rigid formulas of Calvinism, but embrace a version of TULIP that is “milder,” for lack of a better term. It is still subject to all of the concerns expressed by the one Arminian I have discussed any of this with.

[klw]

Thanks for the clarification. Yeah, to my Arminian ears the difference between the two terms just sounds like semantics..

[Kendel]

@Paraleptopecten

it does not assert as OSAS does that those who apostasize never had faith,

God gives the gift of faith only to take it away?

The non-elect can have saving faith and go on to lose it?

Sorry. I’m not seeing how this works at all.

[Kendel]

Semantics between versions of Calvinism?
I can imagine it does.

[Paraleptopecten (Timothy Campbell)]

@Kendel

@Paraleptopecten

it does not assert as OSAS does that those who apostasize never had faith,

God gives the gift of faith only to take it away?

The non-elect can have saving faith and go on to lose it?

Sorry. I’m not seeing how this works at all.

Perseverance of the Saints says that the non-elect can temporarily have all of the outward signs of faith and can sincerely believe and be faithful without being saved. OSAS tends to deny that they ever truly believed or similar.

[Paraleptopecten (Timothy Campbell)]

@klw

Colour me a little confused…(my denomination does not teach OSAS either so I may be a little dense in working though these concepts).

So, you seem to be saying the “Elect” will always remain faithful. But the Elect are saved…are they not? So how is this not saying that the saved will always remain saved?

Yes, it is saying that the saved will remain saved; the difference is in how they would view apostacy-- is it someone who never truly believed (OSAS); or was it someone who may well have believed but did not persevere in faith, and thus was not elect (Perseverance of the Saints).

It’s not a huge difference, but saying that all Protestants hold to OSAS is definitely wrong.

[Kendel]

No wonder some of my tender-hearted Reformed sisters and brothers live in terror of having faith that Jesus is their Savior but not actually being among the elect.