Stages of spiritual development?

[Paraleptopecten (Timothy Campbell)]

@St.Roymond

I haven’t read enough of Calvin’s work to make a case, though.

What I’ve read would put him kind of outside the categorization here-- some characteristics more in common with Simplicity, particularly in writings directed towards a more lay audience, some more in common with the more complex stages.

[Paraleptopecten (Timothy Campbell)]

@Kendel

“God, I think you that I’ve come so far.”

Thanking Him for His making one better than one used to be and praying for mercy at the same time is also legitimate.

[Kendel]

Exactly.

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[RichardG (Richard Gillett)]

@adamjedgar

create doctrine from them when other texts contradict that doctrine

For a person who cross references all the time you should not be claiming any contradictions.

@adamjedgar

The sabbath has nothing to do with the resurrection

Only if you are a Jew. You claim to be a Christian. I will give you a clue. Christ rose on the third day,

@adamjedgar

So what does it mean for Chist to fulfill the law?

We do not have to . Love encompasses and goes beyond the Jewish Laws.

@adamjedgar

The point of the text is that we should be fully convinced in our own minds

So If I d not consider any dau to be special? (as per the text)

@adamjedgar

I’m not sure how you figure they taught something different to gentiles to what Christ taught to them

I didn’t say that. i said that Paul refused to impose judaism onto Gentile Christians, starting with circumcision and going forward

I am not going to argue the rest gain. I have said my piece.

Richard

[St.Roymond]

@adamjedgar

The sabbath has nothing to do with the resurrection…

The writer of the epistle to the Hebrews would disagree – the sabbath is about rest, and God’s rest comes from the Resurrection; it isn’t about going back in time when it says “They shall not enter into My rest”.

@adamjedgar

Christ quite clearly told them he did not come to do away with the law, he came to fulfill it. That means live according to the law…that’s the whole point!

No – when some is fulfilled that means it has been “filled full”, and when a container is full there is not only no need to add more to it, it is foolish to make such an attempt. Jesus lived according to the Law in order to fulfill it, but since He filled it there is no longer a need for it. That’s why Paul can call the Law a tutor that led us to Christ and then point out that once the tutor has done his job he is no longer needed.

@adamjedgar

I’ve explained this before from the Old Testament Sanctuary Service

You’ve got that so backwards it’s idolatry: Christ doesn’t have to conform to the sanctuary service, the sanctuary service conformed to Christ! To put the sanctuary service at the center of theology is to cease being Christian.

@adamjedgar

We all have only the one bible there and that alone refutes your claim!

Given that this “one bible there” actually distinguishes between what was taught to Jews and what to Gentiles, your claim is void. The letter from the Holy Spirit and the Apostles in Acts 15 was specifically to and for Gentiles; if the teaching had been the same then the Holy Spirit would have made that clear instead of only addressing it to the Gentiles.

@adamjedgar

that is a construct aimed squarely at trying to make the bible fit with Darwinian Evolution

You’ve been corrected on this so often that you know it’s a lie. The point about style and form comes from studying the Bible, and has nothing to do with anything Darwinian; indeed it began a good millennium and a half before Darwin was born!

@adamjedgar

it causes enormous theological holes and contradictions when people start to try to do that with scripture

Only in the fantasies of YECists. What paying attention to style and form actually does is reveal the theology the text intends to convey.

@RichardG

So If I d not consider any dau to be special? (as per the text)

Then Paul says you’re fine.

[MarkD (A Whateverist, not a Christian)]

@Kendel

@Mervin_Bitikofer

Or is that still too much like a triumphalist ‘progression’ that condescends in its view of those earlier stages?

The appropriateness of employing such lenses depends (in part) on one’s attitude reflected in part in this riff:

“God, I thank you that I’m not like the rest of these spiritual troglodytes.” or “God, I think you that I’ve come so far.”
vs
“God, have mercy on me, the perplexed one.”

But I keep finding myself asking: What’s the point?

I’m right there with you in that last sentence. I probably ask that about more spiritual issues than you do.

In some ways we are just all wanderers through these amazing human lives we’ve been given. Is there an endpoint or necessary stages to the journey?

I don’t think there is anything we’re “supposed to be doing” let alone on any particular schedule. But it is possible to ask questions and discover others have also asked them before us and that people have responded to them in a variety of ways.

For me spirituality isn’t much more than that. Some come to those questions already a member of a tradition or tribe and others not. No one is losing nor any winning. I think God makes use of us for reasons we needn’t understand regardless. And we on our side tap into Him or don’t. Life goes on and provides whatever meaning and fulfillment is possible for us.

[RichardG (Richard Gillett)]

@MarkD

@Kendel

But I keep finding myself asking: What’s the point?

I’m right there with you in that last sentence. I probably ask that about more spiritual issues than you do.

why does there have to be a point? The meaning of life is an unanswerable philosophical conundrum.

The answer “To get to eternity” would seem to be shallow and diminish this life to a rite of passage.

My reading of Scripture would suggest that the only goal, if any, is to live it with due respect for anyone, or anything else trying to do the same (Giving Nature a person with that goal)

Heaven and Hell are red herrings for the selfish to hanker over.

Richard

[Kendel]

Mark,
I owe you an apology for being overly-assertive of my views in this, your thread. I think I did more to end the conversation than to add anything of value to it. I’m sorry.

@MarkD

I find it helpful in understanding why people of the same faith can vary so much in the way they hold it. I’ve wondered why some are moved by their faith to profound insight into our human condition and cherish life while others seem to hold it in a superficial way that seems to infantilize them. If there really are natural stages to spiritual development that would explain a lot. But you’d still hope that those who get stuck would help to progress.

I have expressed my reservations and suspicions regarding these stages, and particularly as detailed in Brian McLaren’s chart.

What use would you make of these versions of developmental stages?
Anything beyond what has already been discussed, or anything that you brought up that has been buried inside this thread?

Again, I’m sorry to have been so pushy and critical regarding your thread.