Did you have to obey your father’s rules to be his son? No, but ideally you wanted to and did because you loved.
Likewise, I don’t have to obey my Father’s rules to become his adopted son. I already am adopted (it cannot be revoked) and want to and do obey his laws of love – the moral law, OT and New. If my behaviors (and desires) are evil, however, then I have good reason to question the legitimacy of my adoption. Hence Paul’s warnings.
No worries - I did agree with pretty much everything you said there I think. Generally, I wouldn’t ‘like’ something if I still was seriously at odds with much of it - though your caution against too much presumption in that regard is appreciated. There are many other motivations too (apart from complete agreement) that might caused me (or anybody) to ‘like’ something.
In order to be saved, one must first be justified in the sight of God. James 2:24 says “a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.” How does a believer become “justified by works”, exactly?
What? According to James 2:24 (and other Scriptures), our justification - and hence, our eternal fate - depends on keeping God’s commandments (James 2:24) … but you say “we are not to be focused” on keeping them?!
Contrary to your terrible advice, therefore, we should be very “focused on the rules” – as Paul says in Philippians 2:12, “work out your salvation with fear and trembling” – because the eternal fate of every believer depends on his response to keeping God’s commandments.
Likewise, in Gal 5 and 1Cor 6, Paul warns believers that not keeping God’s commandments (“the rules”) can result in them not inheriting the kingdom of God. [quote]You are not driving well of you only look at the speedometer. [/quote]There are many road rules a driver must keep – if you are not “focused” on keeping them, you are risking disaster. The road to eternal life is the same – if you are not “focused” on keeping God’s rules, you are risking disaster.
And then Dale added:
Jesus’ transaction on the cross covers us.
[Moderator note: I parsed out the attribution above to get the thoughts expressed correctly attributed. -Merv]
The Cross alone does not “cover” anyone. We are “covered” by the Cross only if we become justified in the sight of God and remain justified. James 2;24 says we are justified by works and faith - so if a believer doesn’t strive for “works” - ie, follow “the rules” - he runs the risk of not being justified, and hence not being saved.
If a believer willfully commits serious sin, he risks losing his justification by works - this is what Paul warns believers about in Gal 5 and 1Cor 6.
Did you have to carry a list of rules around with you when you were a child, fearing that disobedience would cost you your sonship and that your father would disown you? It sounds like you have a similar fear now with respect to your Heavenly Father.
The most frequent mandate in the Bible is “Don’t be afraid” or one of its several variations – “Be anxious for nothing”, “Fret not”, …
Is this what you were referring to in Galatians 5?:
That does not say anything about losing it. That speaks about never getting it.
ETA: Likewise 1 Corinthians 6:
That is not a warning about losing it. It is about never getting it. Again, the warnings are for people who live that way, including those in the church who may think they are believers, but indeed are not. And yet again, one more time, they are also standards for believers who are already adopted and heirs to test themselves against, for assurance.
Scripture says you can lose your “sonship” by disobeying God’s commandments. This is what happened to the believers in Matt 7:21-23, who were disowned by Jesus due to their “lawlessness”.
You bet - only fool has no fear of God, his justice and his judgement. Besides that, I love God and don’t want to offend him by being disobedient.
A believer is justified by works, so my eternal fate depends on striving to keep God’s commandments - this is why Paul says we must "work out our salvation with fear and trembling and why he warns believers that there sins (disobeying God’s commandments) can result in ending up in Hell.
I don’t want to end up in Hell, so I take Paul’s advice very seriously.
James say believers are justified by works - how does one do that, exactly? Can you tell me?
A believer is justified by faith and obeying God’s commandments, so if a believer falls downs in either of these two areas, he has everything to fear, because his eternal fate depends on them.
Not inheriting “the kingdom of God” means not making it to Heaven and ending up in Hell. Come on, it ain’t rocket science!
My eternal fate has been taken care of by grace, irrevocably, on the cross, by Jesus. There is nothing I can do to lose it. If my behaviors (including behaviors of the mind like lust, jealousy and covetousness) were of such that consistently dishonored him, I should indeed doubt my status. There is such a thing as security for Christians.
This was posted over a month ago, above #144:
The Christian’s Confidence & Eternal Security, a list
We do not earn our salvation by works. It seems you neglect this:
I am God’s adopted child. Who is strong enough to erase his signature on the document? (It has been called the Book of Life, I believe. Do you remember when it was written?)
Um, yes? Have I said anything that contradicted that? No, but, as noted, I am already an heir, irrevocably, and I suspect you are too, but you just do not know it. If, later in your life, God forbid, you do abandon Jesus, then you never were an heir and you haven’t lost anything because you never had it.
God’s offer of eternal life is a free gift, but not everyone accepts the gift. To accept the gift, one must be justified by works (James 2:24), and then remain justified.
Really? In that case, why does James say “ works ” are necessary for salvation (James 2:24-26)?
Why does 1John 2:3-6 say any believer who “ disobeys his commandments ” is a “ liar , and the truth is not in him ”?
Why does Paul say without “ holiness ” – ie, keeping God’s commandments – “ no one will see the Lord ”?
Why are the “saints” those keep God’s commandments and have faith in Jesus (Rev 14:12)?
Why does Paul warns believers that not keeping God’s commandments can result in them not inheriting that kingdom of God (Gal 5, 1Cor 6)?
No, it wasn’t. Scripture says Jesus died for all mankind, so if the transaction was completed by the Cross, not only would all mankind be saved, there would be no need to have faith in Jesus. The only thing the Cross completed was the redemption of all mankind (past, present, future), but the Cross alone doesn’t save anyone. Redemption and salvation are two different things.
What the Cross did was to make eternal salvation possible. The redemption of all mankind was unconditional - unlike salvation, which is conditional. So all mankind – past, present and future – is redeemed by the Cross, but not all mankind will be saved.
If a believer’s “performance” is worthless, why does Paul tell believers in Romans 6 that “the wages of sin (ie, disobeying God’s commandments) is eternal “ death”, and that righteous (ie, obeying God’s commandments) leads to eternal life?
If a believer’s “performance” is worthless, why does Jesus say the “ works ” (“performance”) of certain believers makes me “worthy” of eternal life in Revelation 3:4?
If a believer’s “performance” is worthless, why does James 2 say Abraham “was justified by works ”, that a believer is “justified by works ” and that “faith without works is dead”?
If our “performance” is worthless, why does Paul warn believers in Gal 5 and 1Cor 6 that their sins – their “performance” - can result in them not inheriting the kingdom of God?
Scripture repeatedly teaches that our “works” – our “performance” – have a great bearing on our salvation, but here you are saying our “performance” is irrelevant and worthless! Cleary, there is something seriously wrong with your doctrine.
The bottom line is, Scripture clearly teaches that “works” (or “performance”) are essential in order for believers to be justified and judged “worthy” of salvation (Rev 3:4).
Not so. I have already mentioned the conjunction,
The Greek (not that i am pretending to be a scholar) can be read to show to be righteous. That is different than declared.
The verse: James 2:24 Interlinear: Ye see, then, that out of works is man declared righteous, and not out of faith only;
The verb: James 2:24 Interlinear: Ye see, then, that out of works is man declared righteous, and not out of faith only;
A better translation might be the NLT or the NIV:
So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do, not by faith alone.
It is talking about externals (and internals to test, to show ourselves that we pass the test), not being made or declared righteous. If we are not ‘measuring up’ externally or introspectively (remembering that Jesus raised the bar with respect to adultery, for instance), then we have reason to doubt.
But, good grief, look at all the assurances in the linked list if we do past the test. I don’t need to worry about future transgressions (and that is not a license to sin, either, because I would be lying, cheating on the test).
You seem to be contradicting what Paul is saying and implying in Gal 5, where he warns believers - you know, people with faith - that their sins/works can land them in Hell - which implies of course that they can lose their “sonship” (notice that Paul says they "will not inherit the kingdom of God’.
For Pete’s sake - it should be taken as read that I’m talking about believers - those who already have faith. To accept the gift of eternal life, one must first accept the gift of faith - but faith alone is not enough, which is what James 2 makes clear.
No, you are reading something into it that is not there, about losing your adoption and status as an heir, when what it clearly says is you won’t receive it.
That’s the thing about false doctrine - it requires twisting and denying the plain words of Scripture to make it look at least a little bit “logical”.
Look at the list and tell me which is reversible. Being born (anew)? Being adopted? (That is not merely something we get later. Paul calls us joint heirs now,)
That is a false accusation and pharisaical. Look at the list – it is only one page and all of it scripture.
Shalom.
“Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” -Colossians 4:6
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