Southeastern BTS debate discussion: Who's got questions/comments?


(Christy Hemphill) #1

Friday, April 7, Southeastern hosted a debate between Dennis Venema and AIG’s Nathaniel Jeanson. We’d love to hear responses and questions from anyone who attended or watched the FB livestream. Come introduce yourself and share your thoughts.


(Mervin Bitikofer) #2

Yes … first question: For those of us who were at work while it happened in real time, is there a youtube video or link to anywhere where we can still watch it after the fact?


#3

You could post your question on their facebook page, or see if they have a youtube channel.


(Jay Nelsestuen) #4

Last I read, they were planning on releasing an edited edition with all the PowerPoint slides inserted. So, eventually.


(Mervin Bitikofer) #5

Thanks, @beaglelady and @AdCaelumEo.

Meanwhile … since I missed out, can anyone give at least the barest “blow-by-blow” account for the benefit of those who missed? My thoughts and prayers were with the whole proceeding, especially Dennis. I hope everybody treated each other with decency and respect. (I know Dennis would have, but I’m more worried about how he may have been treated himself since I know nothing of the other guy.)

Added edit: okay … now I see that the ‘blow-by-blow’ is literally happening in another thread here. No wonder things are so quiet. Hope to be back when there are things to discuss.


(Christy Hemphill) #6

I thought maybe I’d put up some of the questions that were posted at SEBTS’ facebook page and people can respond with good resources. (Just in case people check out the thread, but are too shy to post, you never know…) Many of them are questions we get all the time. Feel free to start a spinoff thread if you would like to discuss one in depth. (Just click the time stamp at the upper right corner of the post and click +new topic) To quote a question below and comment on it, highlight the question and click on "quote selected’)

Prior to long ages and evolution muddying the waters of the Biblical worldview, it was understood that we were living in a cursed world since the fall, with our hope in God tied to a hope of restoration and removal of the curse. Revelation says the curse will be removed and there will be no more death (even carnivory). It stands to reason that there was no death prior the fall/curse.

If death is a result of the fall, how does that mesh with evolution? Many animals would have lived and died before humans ever came on the scene.

How does your position on the evolutionary process of Humans account for the Imago Dei? Does God haphazardly pick one of these species to be be his image bearer, or did he have a unique process of evolution to allow humans to turn out a certain way, and then placed the Imago Dei in them?

Dr Venema said that the Bible describes things phenomenologically (the sun rising) but not literally. However, why would God describe creation phenomenologically. The sun appears to rise but creation events don’t appear to us. So why accommodate the evolution story by telling a six day creation story instead? Did God think the Isrealites wouldn’t understand evolution? Furthermore, the sun rising is somewhat like the earth going around the sun but the six day story is nothing like evolution.

How does your hypothesis about mitochondrial Eve and Y Chromo Adam correlate with the biblical narrative of A & E in the garden and the fall? Is the bible speaking of populations or two persons? More precisely how does this relate to the doctrine of sin and Paul’s writing on the federal headship of Adam in Romans 5 where Paul says, “sin came into the world through one man.”?

How do you reconcile the doctrine of the Fall with the larger population that the evolutionary theory of human origins posits?

From an evolutionary/Darwinian point of view the moral argument would be that of “survival of the fittest”. So where would you point to as a theological and moral argument of us being made in God’s Image and to live differently from the rest of creation? Correspondingly, your view of sin since the Bible states through one man sin came into the world and through one man grace abounded (Romans 5:12-17)?

Are convergent traits evidence for supernatural intervention, evidence for the improbability of common ancestry, or evidence for a supernaturally designed evolutionary machinery built into the cosmos (or some other option)? If convergent traits are possible, for even as some might say irreduciblely complex systems, is it not also probable to have gene similitude without common descent or transmission?

There were never less than 10,000 hominids," He also said, "they all came from the same “mitochondrial eve.” So were there less than 10,000 hominids originally per his beliefs?

“Re-examining the special revelation” yet you just said “science never determines our exegesis”. That seems to be to me a blatant contradiction.

Should Eve have trusted “natural revelation” when she “observed the fruit was good for eating”? (Despite her observation clashing with God’s clear Word). Which trumps which?

What is the role of sin and salvation if we have simply evolved from ancestors who merely act upon impulses with no consequence other than natural agitation/reaction?

Are you saying that science and scripture have equal authority? 2 Tim 3:16-17 clearly says that scripture is inspired. If science is equally inspired, where does God say that?

How do you understand the logical argument of Paul in Romans 5 apart from an actual historical Adam?

If humans were “created” by evolution, how do you account for Jesus acknowledging a historical Adam (Mt 19, Mk 10)?


(Christy Hemphill) #7

In another section several people objected to the idea that evolution added new information. To explore the evidence that it does you can check out this blog series: http://biologos.org/blogs/dennis-venema-letters-to-the-duchess/series/id-and-information


#8

@Mervin_Bitikofer It appears that the video is now available for on-demand viewing. I’ll need it also as I missed large portions of the live presentation.


(Christy Hemphill) #9

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