I was gonna say – real research takes grant money.
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I don’t know how to put it politely but people don’t understand logic, they don’t think critically very well and they generally don’t know how to do research or have the prerequisite knowledge to vet competing sources. Imagine a typical person who doesn’t know any science reading an introductory internet article on radiometric dating then reading a creationist rebuttal of it. They would be almost helpless at first in. resolving the issue without an expert they trust or a desire to dig deep and teach themselves some science. People don’t understand the complexity of science today or how much has gone into ot. They just bang away on their smart phones and use modern technology and take modern medicine like it all just fell from heaven. Science is as foreign to the general population as it slaughtering an animal for food.
The general population confuses memes for arguments. For a long time Ive felt public education should require all students to take a class in formal logic and fallacies. Learn how arguments work and be able to spot fallacious arguments and things like confirmation bias.
When I teach freshmen physical science I will conduct a lesson one day where I spend a class arguing that the moon landing was staged. Using pictures and websites to boot. At the end of class I tell them everything I said was wrong and you have to debunk what I argued. It’s not easy for them but it’s necessary I think.
But research to a lot of high school students today is control c and control v and then back to TikTok.
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Sounds like you are doing a great job with your students. I agree that most today know little about how the world works, both in science, and in skills of daily living like finance, marketing, and home repair. On the other hand, they do well with computers.
I have tried with my kids and grandkids to teach them a bit of that, but there is a lot of competition for their attention. Even with my kids, they would ask me what I thought about some of the issues with Covid, as when their peers bombard them with competing disinformation on a continuous basis, it is tough to hear the lone voice in the wilderness. Fortunately, they have remained sane in the spite of the insanity they hear on the internet in home school groups and (unfortunately) Christian groups.
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Or takes doing the best you can when no one who can supply it cares enough about your field to give you grant money, like most invertebrate research, that isn’t of human or livestock medical relevance.
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Yeah, I was wearing my cynical hat. In reality, much early covid research was done without grants, too.
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There are other costs to being a researcher. Some face harassment (Katharine Hayhoe) or even death threats (Michael Mann). Both are climate scientists.
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I’ve recently been told that I was wrong about a covid paper when I was one of the lead authors of it. This is not an attitude that makes for persuasion.
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Great advice. I know someone who married a person who was raised ant-vax and very big into alternative medicine. My friend really wanted the spouse to be vaccinated go to mainstream doctors before they tried to have children. He was willing to consider the evidence. She started by asking him to learn some basic things about how the immune system worked and how infections worked. Once he understood that, it only took a bit of reading about vaccines and the flaws in anti-vax logic to convince him. I’m sure it’s not always that easy, but sometimes jumping straight to arguments is counter-productive because people don’t have the basic understanding in place to grasp the errors.
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About on par with telling [anyone who has done molecular phylogenies] that they are wrong about how genetics works.
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I have been thinking about this for some time; the paper is very thoughtful.
One of the main reasons that doctors get sued is for poor communication. They may have done everything right, but the patients feel overwhelmed. The initial cause of talking to a lawyer may even have been to just get more information, as they felt that that was the only way they could get a good explanation.
When you combine with the feeling of powerlessness and loss of freedom, it can result in some angry, defensive feelings. We may feel like we are explaining, but they aren’t understanding the basics.
It is very true that there are so many nuances that it’s impossible to explain everything. However, first listening, so that the other person feels heard; and then explaining as much as possible, sometimes (not always) builds up trust to the point that they will accept that we mean well.
I have to acknowledge that I feel threatened when someone is snarky or angry, and sometimes we can’t pursue things if they continue that way. Reinforcement of negative attitudes by spiritualizing things seems to make it harder. I have to bounce things off colleagues before typing a note or talking to people, on occasion, to make sure it is not overwhelming to them.
Sometimes, I’ve just had to express concern for safety to people who are refusing to take Covid or other advice. Maybe that is all they want to hear, and maybe it will open them up to discussion later. I like what Lee McIntyre wrote about discussing things with science deniers–have patience. It won’t happen in a day. And the people, and their security and relationships to us, are much more important than anything else. We are telling them things for their health and safety, of course, but there may be a a point at which they won’t hear us any more.
If anyone has other insights, I’d appreciate it.
Thanks
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One of the few things I learned in med school is that dissatisfied patients don’t sue the mistake, they sue the person (or personality).
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As you know, we have the awesome NHS. Nonetheless, it is not as good as the French, Dutch or German health systems, or Swiss or Nordic. In those systems you pay according to ability and the queues are shorter. So, twice, once for me and once for my wife, we had to pay for private consultants to explain our treatments to us. To give ourselves a German class service. In my case pressure was subtly brought on the NHS to perform a procedure, they didn’t like it, but they did it. In my wife’s case she was - eventually - treated correctly but the narrative, by world class neurologists at a national centre of excellence, was wrong. We both simultaneously, independently knew it was. They’d underestimated us and given us an obsolete approximation. Which was confirmed by the private neurologist. The NHS didn’t like that either. Wouldn’t even acknowledge it. But it’s on record.
A strictly rationed free system cannot be as good as a hybrid, but smooth, means tested system. The US system does not appear smooth.
So my scepticism is informed and I will always pay for an even more informed second opinion.
I have a friend who is a retired NHS GP and research scientist. Oxford AND Cambridge. I love it when he says he doesn’t know. Give me that every time.
In the summer I hacked my hand up messily with a jumping wood saw. Blood everywhere. Walked down to A&E, saw a consultant surgeon within 45 minutes, back home for tea, No bill. You can’t see it now. Still awesome.
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One of the problems with doing our own research is that some valid voices are being censored.
My daughter sent me this example:
Yeah yeah yeah…
Malone’s voice is anything but censored as his disinformation reaches and will continue to reach millions of poor people who will deceived by his lies.
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Excellent video even if it was very long. What a liar Malone is!
Preaching to the choir.
You. Him.
I am so sorry for your experience.
Thanks Randy. You get what you vote for. The experience was OK, but you HAVE to keep your powder dry. My favourite question to any professional is what would you do? If it were you? Your wife? Your mother? Your child? I’ve never known anyone be able to lie. But some can’t answer. Then you know.
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Please no one listen to Malone. He has zero to offer anyone who wants to be safe and healthy. Ever notice how there can be 4,000 scholars who all say the same thing and poorly-informed people will go latch on to the five who disagree. Half the time, these guys are not even real doctors. Malone will take you straight to the grave if anyone has any sort of morbidity.
These facebook dying accounts from hospital rooms are harrowing and so many of them appear to be uneducated but extremely angry Christians.
I have seen several posts where people almost taunt God, if you will. And the bam, two weeks later the person is gone.
Please anyone who has a common comorbidity, need to be vaccinated virtually always. (content edited and removed by moderator). Malone is a sloppy narcissistic quack, so no, please nobody watch this video. It lets to potential death should you be deceived.
I dare anyone to read this deceased woman’s haunting facebook demise and then tell me Covid is no big deal.
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Dr. Malone, who is a major contributor to the wonderful gift of the vaccine, certainly has an educated and viable opinion that needs consideration, and yes—overweight and other people should be vaccinated. I think everyone eligible should be vaccinated, although vaccinations may be superfluous for those who have recovered from Covid.
What I don’t understand, @william1, is why you don’t want anyone to hear what he has to say. If it is true, it is good to hear. If it is false, hearing it should reveal that.
Censorship is not helpful.
Silencing dissenting voices is a recipe for error.
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