About on par with telling [anyone who has done molecular phylogenies] that they are wrong about how genetics works.
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I have been thinking about this for some time; the paper is very thoughtful.
One of the main reasons that doctors get sued is for poor communication. They may have done everything right, but the patients feel overwhelmed. The initial cause of talking to a lawyer may even have been to just get more information, as they felt that that was the only way they could get a good explanation.
When you combine with the feeling of powerlessness and loss of freedom, it can result in some angry, defensive feelings. We may feel like we are explaining, but they aren’t understanding the basics.
It is very true that there are so many nuances that it’s impossible to explain everything. However, first listening, so that the other person feels heard; and then explaining as much as possible, sometimes (not always) builds up trust to the point that they will accept that we mean well.
I have to acknowledge that I feel threatened when someone is snarky or angry, and sometimes we can’t pursue things if they continue that way. Reinforcement of negative attitudes by spiritualizing things seems to make it harder. I have to bounce things off colleagues before typing a note or talking to people, on occasion, to make sure it is not overwhelming to them.
Sometimes, I’ve just had to express concern for safety to people who are refusing to take Covid or other advice. Maybe that is all they want to hear, and maybe it will open them up to discussion later. I like what Lee McIntyre wrote about discussing things with science deniers–have patience. It won’t happen in a day. And the people, and their security and relationships to us, are much more important than anything else. We are telling them things for their health and safety, of course, but there may be a a point at which they won’t hear us any more.
If anyone has other insights, I’d appreciate it.
Thanks
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One of the few things I learned in med school is that dissatisfied patients don’t sue the mistake, they sue the person (or personality).
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As you know, we have the awesome NHS. Nonetheless, it is not as good as the French, Dutch or German health systems, or Swiss or Nordic. In those systems you pay according to ability and the queues are shorter. So, twice, once for me and once for my wife, we had to pay for private consultants to explain our treatments to us. To give ourselves a German class service. In my case pressure was subtly brought on the NHS to perform a procedure, they didn’t like it, but they did it. In my wife’s case she was - eventually - treated correctly but the narrative, by world class neurologists at a national centre of excellence, was wrong. We both simultaneously, independently knew it was. They’d underestimated us and given us an obsolete approximation. Which was confirmed by the private neurologist. The NHS didn’t like that either. Wouldn’t even acknowledge it. But it’s on record.
A strictly rationed free system cannot be as good as a hybrid, but smooth, means tested system. The US system does not appear smooth.
So my scepticism is informed and I will always pay for an even more informed second opinion.
I have a friend who is a retired NHS GP and research scientist. Oxford AND Cambridge. I love it when he says he doesn’t know. Give me that every time.
In the summer I hacked my hand up messily with a jumping wood saw. Blood everywhere. Walked down to A&E, saw a consultant surgeon within 45 minutes, back home for tea, No bill. You can’t see it now. Still awesome.
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One of the problems with doing our own research is that some valid voices are being censored.
My daughter sent me this example:
Yeah yeah yeah…
Malone’s voice is anything but censored as his disinformation reaches and will continue to reach millions of poor people who will deceived by his lies.
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Excellent video even if it was very long. What a liar Malone is!
Preaching to the choir.
You. Him.
I am so sorry for your experience.
Thanks Randy. You get what you vote for. The experience was OK, but you HAVE to keep your powder dry. My favourite question to any professional is what would you do? If it were you? Your wife? Your mother? Your child? I’ve never known anyone be able to lie. But some can’t answer. Then you know.
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Please no one listen to Malone. He has zero to offer anyone who wants to be safe and healthy. Ever notice how there can be 4,000 scholars who all say the same thing and poorly-informed people will go latch on to the five who disagree. Half the time, these guys are not even real doctors. Malone will take you straight to the grave if anyone has any sort of morbidity.
These facebook dying accounts from hospital rooms are harrowing and so many of them appear to be uneducated but extremely angry Christians.
I have seen several posts where people almost taunt God, if you will. And the bam, two weeks later the person is gone.
Please anyone who has a common comorbidity, need to be vaccinated virtually always. (content edited and removed by moderator). Malone is a sloppy narcissistic quack, so no, please nobody watch this video. It lets to potential death should you be deceived.
I dare anyone to read this deceased woman’s haunting facebook demise and then tell me Covid is no big deal.
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Dr. Malone, who is a major contributor to the wonderful gift of the vaccine, certainly has an educated and viable opinion that needs consideration, and yes—overweight and other people should be vaccinated. I think everyone eligible should be vaccinated, although vaccinations may be superfluous for those who have recovered from Covid.
What I don’t understand, @william1, is why you don’t want anyone to hear what he has to say. If it is true, it is good to hear. If it is false, hearing it should reveal that.
Censorship is not helpful.
Silencing dissenting voices is a recipe for error.
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Overemphasizing gadflies is a recipe for misleading the unwashed masses. People want to follow him and avoid vaccines, then I am all for it. I just see them dying over and over and over so it doesn’t seem to be working out that well. Listen to the hell that poor Ms. Stinnet suffers when she finally realizes she bet on the wrong horse. She is truly terrified and in great pain and suffering. Or you can spend five minutes getting vaccinated. You pays your money and you takes your chances.
Pretty soon, many of us are not going to care if these folks want to believe anything they want. The Prayer Warriors seem not to have the ear of the Goddess from what I see. I also note the type of media in which that person appears in. I am not interest in conspiracy garbage. The idea that that guy has not gotten a hearing is far from the truth.
He’s a narcissistic genius who strays far from what he can prove essentially speaking in misleading sentences that are likely to dissuade people from getting vaccinated. I am about to the point where I say let the vast unwashed go without vaccines. More power to them. I can go on reddit and see one after the other dying after posting outrageous things where the test God and then lose and die miserably in a humiliating fashion. Maybe this is a Darwinian way for the U.S. to ease the population and before long, perhaps the anti-vaxxers will all be dead.
Maybe we need the anti-vaxxers to all sign an oath not to go to the hospital to seek services for Covid like they all do, ending up wasting resources for months and weeks while dying in an excruciating fashion. I see some of these families where three or more families members are all dying at the same time and they still don’t get it. After a few more of these families are cleaned out, maybe these types will wake up but either way, as long as I don’t know them, eh.
I do say a prayer for every single one that requests prayer along with the P.W.'s but my prayers do not seem particularly effective in overriding a virus that people have chosen to underestimate. It’s just a cold right? Sniffles?
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So you have no loved ones who are prey to this narcissist who must be given free reign?
I’d love some psycho to try that in the civilized world.
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This is truly tragic to me. This poor woman is clearly dying on camera and…
Her page is still up. And then there’s this poor soul:
They both ended up having very public, tragic deaths and they still wouldn’t stop working. People dying in real-time is a really unsettling thing to me. I lost a good friend from the Christian high school I attended who had five children and dies of Covid two weeks ago. It hurts me to think about him dying like this and many people end up dying alone in great fear and pain.
There would have to be a whole lot more side effects from Covid before I will miss any boosters. All of these stories on Reddit are harrowing. Who texts while they are dying? It seems that so many of these people are under-educated and alone. Goddess bless.
WJ
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So you’re just being ironic about letting the plague rip through the deprived?
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Any one of us who has struggled with pseudoscience or conspiracy theories (most of us, with YEC in the past; and it’s estimated a large number have conspiracy theories) can empathize with Covid skeptics… Well put. I resemble that.
Hi Vance, I do appreciate your thoughts, and I am glad to see you are healthy enough to participate on the forum.
However, your hopeful statement has been disproved tens of millions of times—at least once for each American adult who has vowed never to get a COVID vaccine.
It is true that persuasion of those captured by conspiracy thinking requires patient listening and kindness. @Marty is right about that. At the same time, private companies are trying to be careful not to spread destructive conspiracy theories, which seems like an action a private company should be allowed to take.
My $.02,
Chris
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I don’t approve of censorship, and I encourage others to scorn censorship.
And Dr. Malone is an expert deserving of a hearing.
But this amounts to yelling fire in a crowded theater. Such speech should always be censored.
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