Your link says “commandment of God”
Vance, you are not listening very well. Let’s review:
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I know the Greek and Hebrew phrases translated ‘word of God’ in English in the Bible do not refer to the canon. Duh. Nobody here is claiming they do.
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The phrase “word of God” is usually used in the New Testament to refer to God’s revelation, not Jesus. That revelation definitely included the Hebrew Scriptures in the minds of the apostles.
I said, “the writers of the Bible used the term word of God to refer to the Hebrew Scriptures.” This is true in the Old Testament. This is true of Jesus, who was not technically a writer of the Bible. My error was in implying that the apostles referred to Hebrew Scriptures as the word of God, and the communication error is not that they didn’t consider the Hebrew Scriptures the word of God, but that it was a component, not a synonym of what they were referring to when they spoke of the word of God. What I was getting at, and what I still mean and think is correct is that they considered God’s revelation in the Law and the Prophets “God’s word,” and that God’s word was fulfilled and continued in Jesus. Their preaching about Jesus as the fulfillment of God’s word (the Hebrew Scriptures) was also God’s word because it was all part of what God had made known. (I gave you lots of references that back this all up.) That preaching is recorded in the New Testament, making the New Testament also God’s word for us, because it is what he has made known to us.
I have repeatedly said that using God’s Word as a proper noun for the canon is an English convention. But it is a convention derived from the idea that the canon is God’s revelation and God’s revelation is referred to as God’s word in the Bible.
Do you think Jesus was not referring to the Hebrew Scriptures as “the word of God” in Mark 7:9-13?
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When John used Logos to refer to Jesus he was co-opting an idea from Hellenistic philosophy. I doubt such an idea would have occurred to Jesus, who seemed much more Hebrew in his cultural orientation. Jesus liked calling himself the Son of Man, which was a deeply Hebrew expression.
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Right, because this whole time we are talking about an English translation of a Greek expression, and different translations choose different words for λόγον τοῦ Θεοῦ. Which just goes to show that there is no absolute reality associated with the “right” words here.
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I asked you where in scripture that occurred. I am still waiting for you to produce the passage.
As for your statement that I am not listening well, I disagree.
Where do the writers call the scriptures the “Word of God.” I have not yet seen you post a passage that does that.
I produced multiple passages. I’m still waiting for you to interact with them.
Choose one and I will. I don’t want to deal with a Gish Gallop.
Here is the passage:
9 Then he said to them, “You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition! 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘Whoever speaks evil of father or mother must surely die.’ 11 But you say that if anyone tells father or mother, ‘Whatever support you might have had from me is Corban’ (that is, an offering to God[e])— 12 then you no longer permit doing anything for a father or mother, 13 thus making void the word of God through your tradition that you have handed on. And you do many things like this.”
This is a passage about the Ten Commandments, written by God on the stone tablets.
By what leap of imagination do you think this is a comment on the book of Esther or other passages in the OT?
We have already established, over and over again, that Jesus obviously was not referring to “the canon.” More than just the ten commandments were considered the word of God.
In Matthew 22:31-32, Jesus refers to what is written in the Hebrew Scriptures as τοῦ θεοῦ λέγοντος·
Is your way of “dealing with” Jesus referring to the Hebrew Scriptures in Mark 7:9-13 as the word of God to say he wasn’t talking about Esther. Because I find that to be lacking as a counter-argument.
No, I don’t like keeping score.
But I have repeatedly said that calling the Bible with the name “the Word of God” misleads people. And she demonstrated that she had been misled, proving my point!
I thought that was noteworthy and I do hope she took note.
Thank you for choosing one.
Here is the passage:
29 Jesus answered them, “You are wrong, because you know neither the scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels[b] in heaven. 31 And as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is God not of the dead, but of the living.” 33 And when the crowd heard it, they were astounded at his teaching.
This is a direct quote of God, not a comment on the scriptures in general.
Yes, when God is quoted, that is the Word of God. That is not a comment on the scriptures in total.
Why is that not obvious to you? Have you been that misled by the misuse of the term “Word of God?”
Which just goes to show that there is no absolute reality associated with the “right” words here.
No absolute reality. Got it.
By the way, this is a quote of God speaking from the burning bush in Exodus 3. Why would you think this is a comment on every word in the OT canon?
IT IS NOT A REFERENCE TO THE CANON!!!
Do you deny that the authors of Scripture referred to God’s revelation (in Hebrew Scripture or elsewhere) as “God’s word”?
I never denied that. I denied that the scriptures, in their entirety, are the Word of God.
Are you trying to change the topic?
Mark 7:9-13 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
9 Then he said to them, “You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition! 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘Whoever speaks evil of father or mother must surely die.’ 11 But you say that if anyone tells father or mother, ‘Whatever support you might have had from me is Corban’ (that is, an offering to God[a])— 12 then you no longer permit doing anything for a father or mother, 13 thus making void the word of God through your tradition that you have handed on. And you do many things like this.”
Again, this passage is about the commandments directly given by God to Moses.
Why would you think this is a comment on words not given by God?
I am talking what I am talking about. I don’t know what goes on in your brain. The topic today, as far as I’m concerned, has been “what do the biblical writers mean when they say ‘word of God’?” I don’t know why you decided the topic was “The biblical writers were referring to the canonized Bible when they said ‘word of God’” or something equivalent. No one has come close to suggesting that, and in fact, I have consistently, not just today, said that it is not the case that the biblical writers mean “the canon” when they talk about “the word of God.”
Because I believe that the Jews considered their Scripture to be given by God, even the parts that weren’t direct quotes. That’s why they consistently appeal to “what is written” as authoritative.
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Why do you believe that?
And why do you think that means they are the “Word of God?”
It is consistent with how they talk about the Law and the Prophets. Look, I’m not interested in proving this to you. (Mostly because I don’t think you actually pay attention to the evidence people put in front of you, so it’s not worth my time.)
I’m pretty convinced by what you have said here and elsewhere that you do not have a coherent doctrine of inspiration. I’ll stick with my own, thanks.
Sigh.
One more time.
“Word of God” is a synonym in English for Bible. Some people don’t capitalize it. Whatever, it means the same thing whether you write, “It’s good to read the Word of God” or “It’s good to read the word of God.” Different English style guides will give you different advice about capitalizing Word. (Same thing for Scripture. It is just a convention whether you capitalize it or not if you are talking about the Bible.)
In the Bible, you find the Hebrew and Greek expressions that are translated “word of God” in English. To the biblical authors this expression meant God’s revelation. It included God’s revelation in the Hebrew Scriptures and God’s revelation in Christ, and God’s revelation about the meaning of Christ’s work that the apostles preached.
I imagine the reason that “Word of God” came to by used as a synonym for the Bible in English is because “word of God” meant God’s revelation, and as the Church was established and the canon was solidified, people saw the Bible as equally God’s revelation as the Hebrew Scriptures. I also see the Bible as God’s revelation. All of it, not just the parts that directly quote God or Jesus. So, I don’t have a problem claiming the Bible is the word of God to us. I believe it is. And since Christians throughout history have also affirmed that, and English speakers got in the habit of calling the Bible the Word of God, I don’t have a problem with that. The connection makes sense to me.
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Try this: Matthew 15:6