Severe weather, Michigan and elsewhere

Prayers are with our Michigan and area friends affected by the bad weather, as well as those in the unusual flooding in Brazil.

Assuming this all is related to climate change, how do we as Christians now live in a world where disasters seem more frequent?


More safely since we have advanced warnings for most of them.


Churches should help members be prepared for emergencies.
Some examples:

  • Do pastors/elders have the contact information of members so they can reach them and check on them?

  • Do you have a place (friends/family in another state/country) where you could stay if you have to evacuate?

  • Do you have an emergency backpack (so that when you have to flee at once, you at least have some basic stuff)? Including medication and copies of important documents?

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Many of us Christians live in denial.


I look at it like this. Nothing i can do about it. No one is actually do very much about it. So what I can expect is more expensive bills and insurance. So I’m cutting back my giving by 25% and working more. Going to make sure i build up a decent savings that’s a much larger goal than before. Building a steel and concrete house. It’s not that much more costly than wood. Been looking at a fairly big underground gas tank as backup energy. That’s about it. Planning ahead for myself and future life .


I’ve taken Katharine Hayhoe’s advice that the first step in dealing with climate change is talking to people about climate change. So I’ve been working with SIL’s creation care task force to develop some open source copyright materials that can be translated into minority languages. Communities that speak miniority languages are disproportionately affected by growing issues of climate related displacement, resource scarcity/conflict, and severe weather disasters and drought.

If anyone would like to volunteer time or expertise to help create translatable resources, get in touch with me. They can be faith-based for use in church literacy programs or secular for use in schools.

For refererence, this is the kind of thing I am talking about:

We’d like lots more “shell books” on ecology and creation care related themes.


Out of curiosity, what type of materials are getting the most positive feedback?

If people are doubtful of human caused climate change I tend to default to rather technical stuff. For example, the 500,000 year atmospheric CO2 record captured in the Antarctic and Greenland ice cores are a great resource, but that can run into problems if people are YEC-leaning. Also, I’m never sure if that kind of information really makes an impact with the general public.


My questions and concerns are similar, but I really don’t know what to do that will have an impact. On the people who vote for people with power who have other more pressing concerns related to maintaining that power.


People in other countries, especially in low resource contexts, are not doubtful of human caused climate change. That is a first world problem. Also, the mistrust of science that permeates American Evangelicalism is not necessarily a feature of global Christianity. That is an American problem.

I’ve been working on stuff with Europeans (British, Dutch), Australians, and South Americans. It’s a different climate. (No pun intended)


I’m miffed by this…that isn’t at all what the bible expects of us Christians. We are supposed to build our spiritual house upon the rock (ie our relationship with God), however its supposed to be a heavenly building not an earthly one!

Im quite sure the bible preaches that we are to look after creation. Im not sure i follow how a Christian fulfills the expectations of the bible by furthering their own wealth and possessions?

The fact two people have loved your post…either I’m completely misunderstanding your point, or there are at least 3 people on these forums who have a theology very different to what the bible actually preaches and teaches.

I cant like your post, as it makes an asburd claim against YEC that is simply …well i cant use the word bullshit so i wont. Having said that, i do accept that some conservative Christians have terrible environmental beliefs that really piss me off!

With the above caveat, i agree with your post. I think all humans have to do is walk up to the nearest decent sized hill where they can cast their gaze over a city:

  1. the dome of smog surrounding it is enough to show humans contribute significantly to poor air quality.

  2. the vast expansion of housing where forests once stood proves that clearing trees in favor of concrete jungles is unsustainable.

All of the above i gleaned from flying paragliders and paramotors in Sydney and Melbourne (i have to assume these are not the only two cities in the world with the above mentioned problems.)

Your mind is blown because someone is saving more money in order to plan ahead of science is telling us is going to happen? That hurricanes and storms off the Atlantic will potentially be stronger? Meaning longer down times at storms? More damage? That droughts in summer may hit harder and longer? Meaning other places in what would be deserts will have to get more water directed towards them meaning dams and canals possibly directing water from rivers headed my way? That my AC will have to work harder to maintain the same temps for a longer period of time? That not only due to the trend in inflation we see, the climate itself may result in crops costing more to grow? As my bills go up so will the bills of others meaning business will charge more? This is not something that should be complex to wrap one’s mind around. It’s not fear mongering and it’s not some kind of apocalypse fearing Doomsday prepping either.

My cost of living is probably going to be affected and go up more than what was typically expected. So I’m going to go ahead and save up more money now instead of waiting later.

What does that have to do with the Bible or being a Christian? This is just something someone does who wants to save more money and not slowly crawl into poverty by poor planning.


There are as many reasons people heart posts as their are people and/or hearted posts. It doesn’t necessarily mean approval or complete assent as you seem to believe. But you don’t ask. And you don’t listen when people explain their reasons, except to compare everything they say against your one, right hermeneutic.

You regularly indicate that people around here, including me, have unbiblical theology. What’s new? It’s like a broken record. You seem to think you are one of the few, the tiny remnant, that has a right enough theology and life to be saved. The pride is overwhelming.

Adam, again, what’s new? You are so often miffed here – once again reduced to cursing, because you are so miffed. What do you want from a forum that brings you to this? I can’t imagine, and I don’t see any evidence of purpose except for the sake of arguing and insulting.
Furthermore I don’t see any purpose for the arguing, because it requires you rely on the dubious, the made-up, the dishonest, the disproven in order to make your case. This goes against your very principles as a Christian. And you even admit that it’s necessary for you to argue and believe this way in order for christianity to be true.

If you are here to argue yourself into faith using these methods, you are in the wrong place. Maybe your pastor or an elder or a deacon can help you.

As far as you being miffed, it’s like a child having a tantrum. But as a grown man. And over the internet. Throw your toys and food. Curse, swear, hold your breath until you pass out. Be as miffed as you llike and as often.

No one cares.


Seeing as you opened the door on this, ill be very direct…
I certainly do and that is because its shown by lots of biblical cross referenced texts that categorically dissagree with your beliefs!

Whilst you guys are clearly very scientific, the same cannot be said of your theology. I find it concerning when so many people here read into the bible things that through a normal reading and use of language, it rejects. What is worse is thst you convince newbies that its biblical truth with no biblical evidence to support those truth claims. I provide enormous amounts of supporting biblical evidence and its because that is a must for ensuring biblical truth is not corrupted.

We are not really super scientific. We are just not super anti science and reality like a few others. Some in here seem to ignore science and don’t have good grasp on what the Bible says.

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100% you are that.

However here is the fundamental problem…

Christinaity is a religious belief. Science does not tell us anthing about religion.

What TEists are attempting to do is force the rest of the Christian religion to agree with naturalism on the topics of time and origins. The weird thing is, secular naturalism doesnt even agree with the TEist theology of God as the source of energy, matter, and life!

Whether you are willing to accept it or not, natualism is the beliefs of men and not God driven.

Attempting to say my religious beliefs must be wrong theologically because naturalism says so destroys faith and salvation. It appears to me that most here really do not understand the relationship between the Old Testament Sanctuary, the Gospel, and therefore Salvation.

Christ died physically, rose physically, and ascended into heaven physically to demonstrate exactly how we are to be redeemed back unto God. Salvation from sin has the ultimate goal of restoration…and that biblically means new bodies and a new earth free from corruption.

Jesus own half brother James plainly tells us “faith without works is dead”. Despite that statement, individuals here are convinced we the old testament law is no longer relevant indeed even claiming it was only for Jews.

The problem with that ridiculous belief is that 2 Peter 2 clearly tells us " the angels sinned and were cast out of heaven"! I challenge anyone here to deny that the standard by which Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven was not the Law of Love (the version, if you like, that we were given is the 10 commandments)

So the real choice is rather easy…is following science going to save anyone? The bible tells us that only the gospel can save us. The gospel is the whole biblical story…not just the resurrection…we dont get that from science.


  1. If i choose to read the bible literally and it turns out im wrong and there is no God, i will.end up the same as the naturalist.

  2. If it turns out im right and the naturalist is wrong…the naturalist dies.

Its pretty obvious the naturalist loses out in both of the above…so ill take my chances with a literal reading of scripture (which is not to be confused with the burden placed upon the people by pharasees the order that began approx 2nd century BC)

When has this not been the case? No one need open any door for you. You have been harping on the same thing since you first arrived.

Again, for the 583rd time, I am not and do not pretend to be a scientist. Or scientific. I am christian who recognizes scientific study of and explanations for natural processes are true, constantly improving and tell us nothing ablout God.

I just spent 16+ weeks working through lectures by NT Wright with other folks here, in which Wright argues for a literal, physical resurrection and much more. Did you notice? I didn’t hear anyone in that group arguing against a physical resurrection.

But you’ve condemned Wright as a bad theologian, because he’s not into your brand of cross referencing and concludes differently on the mechanics of faith and grace. Never denying the need for them.

So shave Wright and the rest of us out of the Kingdom, Adam, because we don’t revere temple service, and we think science tells us true things about the world, even if it doesn’t tell us about God.

And continue to lump everyone here whose theology you don’t know, understand or agree with together into the group you call TEists. Facts don’t matter to you. Our motives for being here don’t matterto you . We are all out of the kingdom anyway…according to you. A bunch of degenerates.

But you are still stuck with the problem you deny and sidestep, when confronted with it. Just as you did a few minutes ago. You fight like a drowning man, insisting on nonsense pseudoscience to try to undergird your faith. You have even said that some of the pseudoscience has to be true, or christianity is not.

You have painted yourself into a corner.

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That’s our point.

Christinaity is a religious belief. Science does not tell us anthing about religion.

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I was trying to stay neutral. I would hazard a guess that you would have problems with this graph:

If I were trying to discuss climate change with you from where you are I probably wouldn’t use that graph because you would have issues with it. That’s all I was saying.

If I were discussing the human causes of climate change I might use something more recent.


Smog may actually produce some cooling, but you are definitely right about the overall environmental impact. I think we would also want to pass on the natural beauty we see to the next generation so they can enjoy it too.


For some it’s the only way to remain sane. Just yesterday walking on the beach (because the wet sand was too soft for bicycling) something reminded me that we can expect the Big One here in the Pacific NW, a quake that is predicted to be between 8.2 to 9.2. I realized that if it struck right then the beach would promptly turn to quicksand, and since the quake is expected to last up to seven minutes I would end up neck-deep unable to break free . . . with a tsunami coming. It was a brief moment of panic.

I’m trying to figure out how to retrofit my house for earthquakes. The tough part is getting it bolted to the foundation since the foundation is the basement wall and it goes right to the ceiling, which means that the standard retrofit – heavy-duty plywood sheets specifically design to overlap foundation and upper basement wall – won’t work.

Then there’s the tsunami threat, which if the county’s maps are right won’t quite reach me, but if we get the maximum possible tsunami it will be forty feet high and roll right over the dunes and into the bay – I can’t figure out whether the bay is large enough to spread that out so by the time it reaches the town it will be just a few feet high.

As for climate change, the big impacts for me are the fact that the survival rate of new trees I plant has gone from about eighty percent down to fifteen percent over the last decade, and that as sea level continues to rise storm surges will be causing more flooding – and of course the fear that a major portion of Greenland’s ice or a big chunk of Antarctic ice will collapse into the sea and raise sea level by a meter or two practically overnight.