Seminar on Origins (Haarsmas) for my CC group, need advice!

I don’t know if there would be anything helpful here, but BioLogos ran a book club blog series on Origins a while back. http://biologos.org/blogs/archive/series/origins-book-club

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The advice I have picked up from a number of people who teach science to students coming from homes/churches that are very skeptical of consensus science is that it is less threatening if you frame the discussion as “We are not trying to get you to believe in evolution. We are just trying to help you understand better why lots of Christians in the sciences think it is the best scientific model.”

If people don’t feel that their beliefs are under direct attack, they can hopefully pay attention to the evidence with a less defensive and dismissive posture. If you look at the goal as being convincing people that the spectrum of Christian belief is bigger than they might have assumed instead of the goal being convincing people to accept evolutionary creation, then it is easier to maintain a tone that invites dialogue and exploration.

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Another thing that was pointed out to me was first to affirm the things you have in common, find those things you can agree with, of which I am sure there are many, from the creeds to affirming God as creator and sustainer of all creation. Also, it doesn’t hurt to bring donuts. Breaking bread can take many forms.

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My son is currently in CC ChB and recently announced in class that he is leaning towards evolutionary creationism. Interestingly, the students’ only concern was whether he believed God is the divine creator but the director was extremely concerned/upset. We live in an area of the country which many, if not most, have made belief in YEC a salvation issue. Belief or “leaning towards” another model of creation is cause for alarm and praying for your soul. My oldest was told by one youth leader he would go to Hell if he considered evolution as a means of creation and another told him merely asking questions regarding the literal biblical interpretation meant he was not saved. I could tell many other stories…

I think it is fantastic you are bringing this information to the CC community. It would not be so well attended in this area. To my knowledge, there is only 1 other family, possibly 2, that have concerns over the science curriculum and are looking for alternatives/supplementation materials. I have talked with a few parents that have graduated children using Apologia and they did very well on the ACT/SAT. So, I’m not as concerned about it and will supplement with our own materials as well. I hope for our son to be well versed on all creation models, but of course our family is EC.

Thank you for sharing this book. I’ll be ordering it today!

Hi, I would talk about big picture things that everyone can agree upon before then asking how we address areas of disagreement. I used an outline form of Loren Haarsma’s “Where Science Meets Worldviews” PPT slides in a Sunday School class for college students as an introduction to science and where it meets faith. This might be a bit much for your group but look at his PPT and the other one (Where is God in Science?) at the top of Loren Haarsma’s web page: https://www.calvin.edu/~lhaarsma/scifaith.html

:scream: Oh my. Hugs to you and your kiddo.

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Wow, what to say? Hopefully that experience wasn’t too damaging to him. Even Ken Ham agrees that this is not a salvation issue.

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Unfortunately, he didn’t tell us for nearly a year and it was quite a difficult time for him. He no longer attends church, except on holidays to make his mama happy.

Wow! Do I feel for you! That youth leader is going to lead kids right out of the church.

I’m so sorry to hear this - what a false dichotomy that he was presented with. :cry:

Hi Diana- Your first priority as a parent is to make sure your kids learn to follow Christ with all their hearts and souls and minds and strength. Of course church leaders make mistakes that we need to live with; but if the alienation is so great that that your son just doesn’t feel like being in fellowship, then you should seriously consider finding another church for your family. Have a heart to heart with your son, see if he would consider trying out a different congregation.

Perhaps I put that too strongly. This Papa Bear would not stay put if that had happened to one of my cubs, I’ll put it that way.

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Thank you for your reply. Actually, the two events happened at 2 different churches. After the first incident, we switched churches. However, this view is so prevalent in this area he met with the same response when asking and posing questions in a respectful manner. We now go to a church that isn’t as legalistic, which has been a relief for our youngest.
Our son that had the negative experiences is in college now and looks forward to moving to a different part of the country. I’m hopeful he will eventually return to church.

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I am very encouraged to hear about the concrete steps you have taken…accompanied no doubt by prayer to our great high priest. I shouldn’t have been so blunt; clearly you are doing a terrific job under trying circumstances. Please forgive my lack of grace and tact. And know that I am joining my prayers to yours.

No need to apologize as I was not offended in the least. Thank you for your prayers.

@DiDove I’m so sorry your older son had that experience, that’s just awful.

I’m glad to hear that at least the kids in your son’s ChB class were ok with his views. Our group is similar to yours in that no one else really seems to find the science curric concerning. I know that is unlikely to change, but what I can at least do is offer this discussion and let them know that should they ever look into the science and find the evidence compelling for evolution and/or an old earth that it is not necessary to throw out Genesis and the rest of their Bible as they may have heard (not from CC, but from Ken Ham who has spoken at the church where we meet). I think though, that I can show them how it’s possible for a Christian to see things differently from the YEC view and still be fully devoted to Christ. They all know me and I think know where my heart is in this, that I don’t want to be divisive or lead people astray but actually want to pursue unity in Christ even when we have different views.

Thanks for all the encouragement and ideas! I think I will offer an extra meeting to cover those remaining chapters for anyone that wants to continue (and food…yes, I should definitely have snacks…these are the practical issues that I forget)!

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LOL. Now that is one for the hall of fame. Martin Luther approves: :heresy:

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@Lstrite - it was great to meet you tonight. Thanks for making the trek to SEBTS!

@DennisVenema Glad we could come! Perfect date for hubby and me…science, Chick-fil-a and we discover an issue even more contentious to YECs than evolution itself: Todd C Wood. Awkward! You handled it well BTW :slight_smile:

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Yes, that was surprising to me as well, and awkward! I wonder if Todd will reply in some way…

Thanks to everyone who offered ideas! We had five families participate in all or some of the seminars which was a nice size group for discussion (5-10 people). It also opened discussion with a few people who didn’t participate but nonetheless wanted to know how it was going or what it was about.

For anyone interested in doing something similar, here is a record of what we covered: http://perspectivesoncreation.blogspot.com

There were varying opinions of the Origins book, but I think overall it was the gentlest way to introduce the concept of real Christians holding old earth and/or evolutionary creationist views. A few people would have preferred a book that presented all 4 views (YEC, OEC, EC, ID) with no preference/bias…but I hadn’t seen anything like that from the post-human genome project era :slight_smile: Maybe the new book in Zondervan’s Counterpoints series will fill that void https://www.amazon.com/Creation-Evolution-Intelligent-Design-Counterpoints-ebook/dp/B06XFN3TW6/.

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