This was an interesting interview from Randal Rauser:
I was already aware from Jordan Peterson’s talk with Ben Shapiro that mystical experience does not appear to be the result of delusion. Joseph Hinman goes further, and suggests that mystical experience may be evidence for God.
I find it interesting that the article does not mention the most compelling mystical evidence of God in the appearances of the Spirits of Truth that Jesus promised. (John 14:17 15:26 16:13) People hearing voices can never be proved beyond delusions Spirits of truth (or demons), that can be heard by many people and recorded, provide the strongest evidence. Since the Oracles of Delphi, these mediums have demonstrated God’s Spiritual World. Yes, many are from deceptive spirits, but these too give evidence of His spiritual world.
Just remember. if Gabriel came today and spoke to a group of people, they would be highly skeptical that he was sent by God. And only through proper testing (1John 4), would a few be confident that he was an angel of God, but many would reject him.
What’s your evidence of recording spiritual voices? Beyond some very static, low quality recording where someone hears that they believe are in the static?
GL Zürich maintains an archive of video and audiotapes encompassing 1,400 recorded trance addresses, each lasting between sixty and ninety minutes. The community organizes events every second weekend in its own headquarters in Zurich and meditation-weeks take place annually in autumn. Additional events, during which audiotapes are replayed, are organized by circles of friends in different cities in Germany and Austria.
I have my own personal copy of 1971 to 1972 on cassette tape.
So these are people channeling spirits through them? Or what are you referring to exactly? This certainly is quite different from how Christians would think about God in a supernatural/mystical experience.
Shawn, your comment above was especially pertinent to me since, in recounting what I concluded was a direct message from God, I encountered derisive skepticism from the head of the Dept. of Religious Studies (prof. Jerry Irish) even though three other scientists (besides my self) concluded that a 'natural’ explanation for the occurrence in question was against a billion to one odds.
A few years ago some of the faculty and deans of Pomona College convened an informal round table to discuss the relationship between religion and science which I was happy to attend. When the subject arose (of God’s speaking directly to a human in this modern era) I related a recent experience which three other scientists witnessed and which I had dubbed (for my confirmation class) "The Miracle of the Panel Truck". (It is related in full in one of my past posts under ‘miracles’.)
I hardly was finished with my presentation when the head of Religious Studies at the college pounded his fist on the table and declared in a loud voice: _“I hate it when someone ascribes, as a ‘religious experience’, something as mundane as God driving a truck!”. This vicious (or at least unkind) skepticism from a learned professor who leads religious studies at the college level! Contrast that to the reaction of one of the agnostic scientists (Prof. Hugo Kubinyi, Univ. Heidelberg) who witnessed the event first hand: “How in Hell did you manage that, Al?” Of course he knew that I could not possibly have ‘managed that’, but he was limited by his adherence to “methodological naturalism” to call it a miracle and outside the realm of science.
IMHO, I had played an (unwitting) role in correcting Prof. Eric Lien’s mistaken view of Christianity that was causing friction within his family. Eric now states that this event changed his whole life for the better–something that I could not have effectively done on my own. This event also solidified my belief that our Creator lives beside each one of us 24/7, and (usually) in very subtle ways, He nudges us in the direction He would like us to take. Perhaps Prof. Irish thinks that relating this event might be OK for 1st grade in parochial school but unsuited for ‘cool’ college seniors. IMHO, the basic Truths that we learn ‘at our mother’s knee’ should be subject to examination as our intellect matures, but it should never turn to derisive skepticism of everything spiritual when we reach sophisticated(?) adulthood.
Al Leo
The are recordings over 35 years of two holy spirits speaking through one person. How do you think Moses talked to God in the tabernacle? Joshua was always present and it was through Joshua that God spoke to Moses. This is why 1 John 4 tells us how to determine if these spirits are from God or not.
Yes, modern Christians do not understand how Jesus’ promise to send the spirits of truth actually functions. It is not people claiming to be filled with the Holy Spirit, but actually ones that can be interrogated as 1 John 4 says.
@pevaquark I grant you that there are a variety of ‘mysterious events’ that should elicit various degrees of skepticism. I would like to know what degree you would assign to the event I just described to @Shawn_Murphy as “The Miracle of the Panel Truck”?
Al Leo
Dear Al,
Thank you for the story. There is one thing I would like to comment on. In order for God to do what you have said, He has billions of helpers. He is not doing this personally, but has delegated it to the King - Jesus. Jesus in turn has countless comforters, spirits of truth and guardians under His command to carry out the Will of God. I find it a shame that modern Christians do not recognize the vast spiritual world of God that stands by each and every living thing. As you say, they are all around us, just waiting for us to reach for them and they are ready to be of service. We have to take the first step, seeking before we find.
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