In the sciences we have a saying, “If it isn’t published it doesn’t exist.” It’s a bit harsh, but it is meant to point out that anecdotal descriptions of experiments is not how science should be communicated. They do need to write up a formal publication, and if nothing else they should post it to arXiv or bioRxiv so others can see their methods and results.
3 Likes
I know a few people with serious mental health problems and they have experiences like hearing voices, out of body experiences, seeing things, sensing invisible life forms, paranoia and more. It is clear to me that the mental health condition is causing/creating the experiences, not the other way around, as drugs, though not perfect, do control them. Interestingly, if good sleep is possible, this also seems to reduce them a lot.
One of these persons was told that they were possessed and it caused them years of problems as it messed with their identity. Not helpful.
The brain is an amazing illusionist, especially if it is affected by drugs, strong emotions or beliefs, mental health problems, or traumatic events like near death experiences.
2 Likes
I “liked” this once only because I couldn’t do it more times Thank you. I’m very worried about the the conjecture that Spirits are the cause of mental illnesses. That has led to far too much spiritual abuse, fear, and lack of true treatment. it is inadvertent, of course, but it’s going on now in many places.
3 Likes
Waaaaaait. Ether ?
Did you see any of this going on in Niger? In poor countries, where mental health care is inadequate or non-existent, people suffering from mental illness are actually chained up in “prayer camps” because mental illness is seen as a spiritual problem. It’s really heartbreaking And I don’t believe in demon possession.
It is indeed heartbreaking. there were possession or deals there, even in Muslim areas, where there is syncretism. I haven’t actually seen anybody chained up, but there was no Mental Health Care there either. I saw people with schizophrenia and other mental disorders wandering around, rather unkempt, but they were usually relatively harmless. We as children avoided them, because sometimes they could Theoretically take a whim and chase us, but we never really had any trouble. I did hear of them hurting other people, but I think most people understood that that was because of their illness. That’s a great question. I will have to ask my friend if they were ever subjected to exorcisms.
1 Like
I just want to add, that there was no money at all for any sort of healthcare, let alone Mental Health. I fantasize about bringing a lot of Risperdal out. I would also like to have some morphine for those who have hospice. There’s no hospice per se, but for those who are dying, especially of cancer, there is no pain control. The strongest they can get is tramadol, and that’s only occasionally.
Hi Randy, thanks for the encouragement.
In my previous post I mentioned a friend with a mental health problem where they were told they were possessed. This was at a Pentecostal Camp in England 25 years ago. They tried an exorcism on her. When I said it was “unhelpful”, that was a massive understatement, it wrecked her identity as she couldn’t tell what was her very troubled childhood self and what was the “demon”. 25 years later she still can’t talk about it without getting uncontrollably upset!
1 Like
Good for you! There was a recent story on BBC that had a very similar outcome, and I wonder if that’s the sort of thing you’re referring to as well. sorry to hear about that.
Actually, there isn’t. Any. As far as I am aware of.
Scientific study on reincarnation or ghosts is an oxymoron. Scientific studies require the use of the scientific method, which rules out appealing to supernatural explanations or objects of inquiry.
1 Like
Why do you immediately disregard new ideas without any basis? Stevenson and his team used approved forensic science techniques that have been third party verified. He assumes no such explanations as you claim. Read at least one of his papers or books before making such accusations.
Because I have experience doing academic research and I can recognize legitimate academic sources. You aren’t providing them. I think you are just another person on the internet who thinks they have single-handedly discovered the key to understanding the mysteries of the universe. I’m not interested in those kind of “new ideas” to be honest. I don’t think most people here are.
I’m not going to read a “scientific” paper on ghost possession. Ghosts are by definition outside the realm of scientific study since methodological naturalism requires that supernatural explanations not be considered. Ghosts are not part of the natural world and cannot be studied by science. Yes, that is a “bias” I have, but why would I waste my time on answers to questions that don’t interest me when I have a long list of books I would love to read on questions that do interest me by authors that are respected scholars in their fields?
2 Likes
I understand this forum to be an intersection of science and theology. As a scientist and philosopher I am laminating my comments to those that are backed by real science. The research I am speaking of requires no supernatural assumptions. It is measurable impact on human subjects that are not explained by any other means.
@tornbetw2worlds
I am a little less harsh in theory. If someone could actually set up a experiment showing a reliable and reproducible paranormal phenomena, with all the appropriate controls, I would have no problem seriously discussing it. The thing is, no one has ever done that! Yes, there are some published studies in parapsychology journals, but they always fail to be reproduced and even in the original paper it is always some really marginal effect that is much better explained by statistical flukes. Lets do it like that: If anyone ever claims one of the several prizes for evidence of the paranormal (see List of prizes for evidence of the paranormal - Wikipedia), then I will read the paper and seriously discuss it with you. But you should keep in mind that LOTS of people have tried and none of them has ever gotten close to that! In fact, I know of scientists who believe in paranormal phenomena and most of then admit that there is no evidence for them “yet”!
Maybe you can clarify. But, by beginning with a debunked term (ether) and using it as an axiom for research, I can’t trust this. Ich glaube es nicht, in Deutsch zu sprechen.
It’s like someone going to a physician and proposing to teach them about medicine using discredited Aristotelian “four humors,” ayurvedic or homeopathic medicine.
Physics
Ether: archaic A very rarefied and highly elastic substance formerly believed to permeate all space, including the interstices between the particles of matter, and to be the medium whose vibrations constituted light and other electromagnetic radiation.
‘the motion of the planets would be retarded by the ether through which they moved’
2 Likes
We try to address science and faith here, with the focus being how science impacts orthodox Christianity and vice versa. When we venture into such areas as the paranormal and areas that cannot be addressed by science and are outside traditional Christianity, I feel we exceed our bounds. Will just monitor for now, but unless substantive information is exchanged, will wrap this topic up and put a bow on it.
5 Likes
Here is a short video about the plight of the mentally ill in West Africa. At least some are getting the help they need.
2 Likes
Thank you for this. Oh, my. It’s in Togo, where my in laws work in a mission hospital (and my wife lived as a child). I will share it with them.
1 Like
Masaru Emoto? I suppose the Dr. could be put in front of his name but as outlined on his Wikipedia page:
In 1992, Emoto became a Doctor of Alternative Medicine at the Open International University for Alternative Medicine in India, a correspondence school which it is alleged requires no coursework.
Notable for me though is the fact that he was offered James Randi’s million dollar prize to demonstrate his work was legitimate under test conditions agreed by both parties. He declined to participate.
But certainly not for cosmologists because as I’ve said already, Dark Matter does not interact except via gravity of which all of this pseudoscience with water has nothing to do with gravity.
1 Like
This is exactly the point of the importance of the scientific research done by Ian Stevenson and JimTucker on reincarnation. Doesn’t the discovery of reincarnation impact orthodox Christianity, more so than evolution? I know the subject in Christianity is tabu and there is no research money in the field, but that does mean it is not important.