What do “poor marks” have to do with journals that publish “pretty much anything”?
Where did you get this idea?
What does this have to do with publishing???
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From the standpoint of a scientist, that property is at the heart of science: to determine where we are wrong and find a better explanation. It would not be science without it.
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I agree JPM, however, the real problem here is that individuals like St Roymond are stoking the fire with his usual rubbish about YEC Science being pseudo science…apparently real scientists are allowed to completely change their theories when it becomes obvious that earlier ones turned out to be categorically false and that remains sound science, however, YEC are not allowed to do the same? (looks like a pot calling the kettle black to me).
BTW, by what mechanism is the human desire to do what you state above driven? Is it the tool of Science that drives this, or the epistomology?
YECs are entirely entitled to changing their views. YEC science isn’t pseudo-science because its adherents are willing to change; it’s pseudo-science because it consists of going through the motions of science solely for the sake of supporting a preordained conclusion. That’s the antithesis of science. (YEC science also frequently ignores data, misrepresents data, and presents tendentious arguments, but those are things that also occur in badly done science. It’s the goal of the enterprise that means it isn’t science at all.)
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YEC is pseudo-science.
But more importantly, it’s pseudo-theology because it demands that God had to coerce the ancient writers into writing using a modern worldview and ignores the fact that Genesis and the rest of the scriptures got written in ancient Hebrew as ancient literature.
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That’s funny, because it brings to mind the image of a dumpster fire, a dumpster fire with more YEC pseudoscience rubbish being poured in.
How about loving truth and the freedom it brings, not causing any cognitive dissonance?
I definitely think it’s pseudoscience but I don’t think I can apply it to theology. Otherwise I would just apply it to all kinds of theology.
So what are some of the treats y’all like to eat that is healthy? One I really like is popcorn. But even with popcorn you have to careful. They are not all created equally and some have so much butter and salt it’s worse than a bag of chips.
Do y’all know about popcorn types? A byproduct of being a vegan and someone who enjoy heirloom gardening for fruits and vegetables is that when I started looking into popcorn as a consistent snack I quickly realized how hard it was to find brands without butter already on the kernels or in the bags. But I ended up finding several that did not.
Though there are several types of popcorn the most common are yellow ( which is what is the typical popcorn you find in stores and theaters. It’s been breed to last longer so it has a thicker hull and lasts longer. It’s easier to grow and is generally considered low in taste which is why it’s often covered in salt and butter.
The other types are mushroom ( which is what Carmel popcorn is often made from. It’s the sort of bulbous shaped popcorn ), ladyfingers which is about a 1/3rd the size of typical yellow popcorn, white popcorn, blue popcorn, red popcorn and purple popcorn. The types of popcorn refer to its shape or color of the kernels. All of it pops white, off white, yellow or of yellow as far as I know.
One of my favorite is the black kernel popcorn. I believe it’s actually a heirloom of the white popcorn and it produces a piece about 1/2 the size of yellow popcorn and has a super thin hull. It’s softer with a bright white pop and has a slight nutty flavor to it.
Now popcorn in general is not a super strong tasting food. But a healthier alternative to flavoring it is to use nutritional yeast. It adds a salty cheesy flavor and usually has less than 1% of daily sodium needs so it’s very very low sodium.
The root beer is basically sparkling water but flavored with Sassafras and anise and some other stuff. I also like it as an evening drink because they usually don’t have caffeine. If interested the film is the original 1960 Robb White’s “13 Ghosts“.
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Adam, I want to clarify. I was/am not concerned with the reality that scientists report different conclusions in their articles. Although this can be a serious problem and frustration for the lay person, because lay people do not understand the (scientific) research process at all. If you work long in any academic field, you will find that it is normal for research disagreements to be hashed out in dialogue over very long periods of time “in the literature.” No single paper or a study absolutely “proves” anything. And ideally, the work in a so-called seminal study will be examined, sliced and diced, and scrutinized by other qualified experts.
That’s normal.
What DOES drive me up the wall:
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Lay people read a secondary or tertiary source (news article, blog post, chain letter, SM post) and share something that is often many steps removed from the original as if the 2ndary or 3rdary product is The Truth without making sure the original paper was faithfully reported by the blogger, poster, chain-letter-writer. THIS IS GOSSIP.
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People with backgrounds in academic research (doctors, for example) abuse their credentials by knowingly propogating material that supports their view, either knowing what they are doing, or knowingly ignorant of what their are doing. That is, they cherry picked in full knowledge that they were cherry picking, or the decided with full knowledged, to cherry pick and deliberately not review the material they cherry picked. (Thanks GBD docs. Love ya) This is false withness.
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People keep sharing garbage 2ndary/3rdary biproducts without ever looking at the original to establish if the 2ndary or 3rdary reportage is remotely accurate.
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People deliberately or ignorantly abuse the dialogic nature of research to pick and choose what “supports their view” and share away!
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People treat every article they do follow up on as if the quality is the same. Please see Joel Duff’s excellent video over in the “Before You Click Send” thread. I even included time stamps!
Again, the primary concern I had stated was NOT what the information is in an article, but HOW the article is handled.
From a Christian perspective, many of the warnings we have in the Bible are to encourage Christians that Jesus is coming; we haven’t been abandoned or forgotten. The encouragement is there to remind us not to give up or dispair. Stick to the tasks we’ve been given, and maintain faith.
Adam, I’m sorry she is going through this and the pain from the related treatments. I’m praying for you and your family. I’m sure others are as well.
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@adamjedgar , I am deeply sorry to hear of your wife’s diagnosis of cancer. I have prayed for you and your family, and will do so.
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common examples of these would be lawyers and politicians yes? 
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Sometimes, certainly, but not always. It’s a different discussion.
My example of the doctors involved in Great Barrington Declaration is personal. I lived with the effects of it in my part of the state, where there has been already enormous libertarian, “philosophical” resistance to following COVID guidelines. Many, many Christians from my old church, who are most of the people I know in the community, glommed on to the GBD (and “Plandemic” , etc.). They have already been convinced and radicalized by the movement started by Andrew Wakefield. The GBD fit perfectly into their world view.
Since the GBD and the anti-vax movement were endorsed by real physicians with medical educations, their work seemed to be authoritative to people who wanted to believe it already. And because their numbers were relatively small, people could feel like they were heroic martyrs against the zombie apocalypse.
However, it doesn’t matter, years or decades later, to the true believers, who were duped, that they were duped. They don’t even believe that they have been. Even after the non-science they have followed more closely in their corners of the Internet, has been discredited and shown to be dangerous.
In democracies, however, these folks get to help make decisions that affect public policies. Which have real effects on real human beings.
So False Witness with regard to public health can have very real consequences.
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Well put. I had a couple of physician acquaintances who were on that train. Unfortunately, it was just an extension of their other views and practices which are equally deplorable. Unfortunately, there is little to be be done so far as medical board complaints, due to the political clout of the demographic involved.
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Last night, my wife had quite a rough time. 24-72 hours fter having a dose of chemo, she is required ro get an immune boosting injection. If my unstanding is adequite, this stimulates white blood cell production in the bone marrow.
A side effect of of the injection is bone pain…at times severe shooting pain throughout the body. Anyway…whilst that seems a bit of a strange place to start this next thought, i believe the little background account helps me explain a dilemma i had whilst i was taking a shower and listening to my wife groan occasionally.
I silently began to pray for her and suddenly a thought came into my head…and i stopped praying.
Caveat…i recognise everyone knows i am Yec, however this is sincere and not a loaded question…and this forum is aware that as a kid, i once prayed God would help by making a flaming pig of a lawnmower go and the darned thing started that once and never ran again…
What if the mechanisms or processes in us are like (for the want of a better explanation) car engines?
You put fuel, oil, and water into these engines and the outcome is that when these things work in harmony the engine runs…God doesnt appear to place his hand on each car engine to keep it running. When bad fuel or the failure of a component in the engine surfaces, and it either runs badly or even stops running at all.
So the dilemma in my head…what if my prayer for my wifes discomfort and pain is somewhat like praying for a car engine that is running badly due to a component failure or poor fuel?
That was a terrible dilemma and it left me…hmmm…leaves me i guess, tearful.
Now heres the interesting thing about differing world views…i believe strongly that God has a hand in all of them (my ecclectic approach comes to mind)…perhaps the answer to the above dilemma can only be found right here.
So, how do Biologos followers reconcile the idea of prayer for what are for them scientific processes in the human body? What do you pray for in circumstances such as that which i found myself last night?
Maybe Christs statement about the faith of a child can start lawnmowers and i can pray for God to stop my wifes pain and discomfort?
EDIT
i forgot to add, eventually my wife and i decided she would take an Endone tablet and she eventually fell asleep until this morning. Is that Gods way of answering prayer…that we decide to take medication for what are scientific consequences of the side affects of immune boosting medication?
Does this mean that prayer is effectively a pointless exercise in such circumstances?
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Hard questions, and ultimately my answer is that I don’t know but trust God is with us in these trials.
As to how it relates to EC, I think most here would agree that while God works through natural processes he created, it does not limit him in miraculous acts in any way. Prayers for your wife.
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N.B. Biologos is not a religion, denomination, cult, society or club. I am not an adherent of whatever Biologos is. I am a participant in their online forum, just as the other people who are logged in.
Adam, you know that some of us here are praying for all of you. So a recognition that evolution and other scientific theories does not necessarily preclude faith that God works in the world. Science doesn’t tell us about God. God doesn’t show himself in ways that are measurable by the tools that science uses.
In what way does holding to YEC help you understand the mechanics of prayer and God’s answering of it? I think in this matter, we are in the very same boat.
So, we keep praying.
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I’ve said before that natural law is just a term for how God runs Creation; “scientific processes” are thus just what He is doing on a regular, dependable basis – but since every step of every process is being worked out and sustained by His power, such prayer is requesting that He vary those workings in a specific instance.
The idea that Creation runs like a machine and prayer is like asking Him to play mechanic and adjust the machine is something I abandoned some time ago. If we want analogies, I’d rather say that God is like a juggler keeping all the particles of the universe in action at once, usually following regular patterns but always at every moment subject to Him “tossing” any one or set of particles differently – and that as a friendly Artist He takes requests.
Or to borrow from a series Ive started watching, “the Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills” – but God is the Wheel, and while He normally weaves in patterns dependable enough to make predictions, He is not adverse to moving a thread or ten now and then.
but when we are in pain (or in this case my wifes pain), given that her pain is a result of medication…what am i supposed to ask God to do when it comes to easing pain from said medication???
See the thing is, whilst i am YEC, I am also rather mechanically minded and, given my car engine anaglogy, i cannot ignore the fact that it was the medication causing her pain…medication she must take.
So whether YEC or TEist…doesnt really matter here…the reason i ask on this forum is because you guys are faced with scientific reasons for what makes the world goes round every day. You have managed to blend this with your Christian world view and that is not something i as a YEC have been taught to do…so i dont think i have experience with it.
Anyway, in that moment i stopped praying because i could not find a satisfactory rational as to why I started to pray in the first place. My silent words were of prayer for God to relieve her pain but in that same moment, my prayer suddenly seemed…im not sure of the right word… but “ridiculous” comes to mind and even, “wasted”. Its not that I was struggling with the idea of whether or not God can answer prayer, it was a struggle with the idea that i was asking him to fix something directly attributable to “cause and effect”. It seemed a bit like a drunk saying, God help me sober up in the next few minutes, i have just been pulled over by a hwy patrol car and am about to be breath tested or, God please help my back pain (even though it was caused by an action that was clearly known to be bad for ones back).
Also, given the above dilemma, does one focus on praying for my wife or, was i in fact better of praying for myself given i was helpless to stop her pain? If i am praying for myself what the heck for, it seems somewhat selfish doesnt it??
Can you see why it seemed pointless to pray in that moment given the circumstances? I knew why i was praying, but I wasnt sure what i was praying for, whether or not it was a reasonable request in the first place, and finally, given the cause and effect clause above…???
i hope you guys can separate my YEC beliefs from my question…this is not about YEC or TEism…its genuinely asking for help in a situation i have never faced before and I am not adequitely researched in this kind of dilemma to be able to answer my own question. I believe that you guys given your blend of science and religion are far more experienced than I in this area. I accept that i will need to blend your answers with my own theology, however, i am confident this can be done.
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I generally don’t think in science terms when I pray; that’s where my analogies come in, based on the idea that God upholds all of creation, which in the Greek is in the plural “all things” rather than “the whole”. My “wheel of time” analogy is closest to how I think of the relation between God and Creation, with God weaving every individual thread at every single moment, so prayer is just asking Him to weave a bit differently.
I don’t see a science aspect here, either, I see the Incarnation involved in that Jesus stepped in a took on the suffering of the world and that given the Fall suffering is just part of the way the “threads” weave, and thus every bit of suffering is a share in the suffering of Christ especially for those who Paul describes as “in Christ”. And given my older brother’s experience with cancer, the question isn’t whether there’s going to be pain, the question is what kind of pain there’s going to be and how we respond to it. And that takes me to James and his shocking statement to count it all joy when we encounter trials, a passage I treasured through the few years when my hips were disintegrating to the point that taking a single step was like getting stabbed with broken glass.
The step from there to prayer has been that God hates suffering of any kind, which is why He stepped right down into it and gathered it to Himself. That is my basis for praying for a loved one’s pain to be alleviated, not because that will make me happy – though it will! – but because God hates it even when it is, or perhaps especially when it is a side effect of trying to help. And if He doesn’t take the pain away, it is because that pain is sharing Jesus’ pain on the Cross.
So I see all pain as “cause and effect”, it’s just that sometimes the cause is more obviously direct than others – like when I had to had to use my own pocket knife to get a 6"-long chunk of splintered wood out of my own knee.
I can understand the dilemma, I just don’t really see where science has anything to do with it.
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I thought it was an accepted fact that nitrites used in ham, sausages etc do cause cancer? I think it is one of the few factors which has been shown to have a definite link.
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