When you meet the King face to face, you don’t need the Holy Spirit. Every knee will bow, not all voluntarily.
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Not to mention … it would be a strange scriptural motif indeed to insist that there are some sinners who are beyond Christ’s redemptive power. As long as we chase after our sin rather than Christ - that continues to be unforgivable - and forever so (which is my reading of verses like that.) Or as I’ve heard it expressed: forgiveness is for sinners, not their sins.
And then there is skeptical theism (← link to Stanford article), before we get too sure of ourselves.
Skeptical theism is the view that people should remain skeptical of their ability to discern whether their perceptions about evil can be considered good evidence against the existence of the orthodox Christian God. The central thesis of skeptical theism is that it would not be surprising for an infinitely intelligent and knowledgeable being’s reasons for permitting evils to be beyond human comprehension.
Also factor is lèse-majesté, “to do wrong to majesty”, God’s majesty and justice regarding it to be beyond our comprehension as well. Maybe we should defer to him in that too?
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Instead we run head long into Balam’s error and like (or worse than) unreasoning animals cursed with instinctual understanding, defile and blaspheme that which we cannot comprehend.
Jesus severely warns, but we say “don’t worry, it’ll be ok… be at peace.”
Strangest days and when the pattern has repeated itself for the umpteenth time, maybe there would be the tiniest speck of deference. But no, and this speaks to how severe is the judgement indeed.
Equally strange to make the Bible say sinners have nothing to fear.
Like I have said from the beginning here, it’s a wonderful irony that it is impossible to desire to be one of God’s elect, and to not be.
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Good thing that nobody here is saying that then!
Actually, on 2nd thought; that bears further reflection; It would be more scripturally accurate to say that ultimately, our true selves have nothing to fear from God. Just as the frightened child really has nothing to fear from the dentist and the frightening array of devices the dentist will use.
As sinners, we will never be a part of the heavenscape … not until our sin is separated from us as far as the east is from the west. But meanwhile, that which is undertaken on our behalf will involve considerable suffering, so fear in the short term is very understandable and normal. No child enjoys pain and discomfort.
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People are strange and all types of inappropriate. Schooling the librarian (breathlessly) about the newest chart, because last years chart failed… I hope you enjoy the book and give Keener the first 15 minutes of his lectures on Revelation.
Yes it does! And when Jesus appears as he did then, and those who should know better reject him to his face, and he echoes words as he did in the Gospels or appears as he does in Revelation. As it was done to God’s prophets in the OT, as it was done to his Son in the NT, and as it will continue to be done until the final judgement.
Or consider the first warning from Jesus in Revelation:
“If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.”
And reading Keener on this passage, you better be ready to get stuffed with exorbitant levels of nuance:
For the church in Ephesus, “overcoming” or “conquering” (2:7) requires more than the vigilance of theological watchmen; it requires the internal unity of love. The reward of such overcoming is eating “from the tree of life,” a familiar image in ancient Judaism.
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No one has said sinners have nothing to fear. God’s judgment is well worth missing even if it’s not forever.
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Paul says otherwise in I Cor. 12:3. When we meet the King we will know him for who he is because off the work God’s Spirit in or hearts.
I think you are adjusting the timeframe of that verse to suit, theologizing.
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Not all voluntarily is your interpolation, as Revelation says no such thing. What it does say is that the response to the confession was “Amen” and worship which is an odd response if the confession was insincere. How does a person say insincerely that he wishes another person blessing, honor, glory, and dominion continually? How would the insincere person know what to say? And why would the response to the confession be approval by the living creatures and the Elders?
Sounds wrong to me.
What’s your proof text again, please?
“they will be tormented day and night forever and ever”
Maybe this is why it should be said as forthrightly as possible - that it is a total impossibility for there to be an infinite number of past events.
Or what better time should solipsism, on the verge of an AI singularity, be considered in light of the Trinity?
“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing.”
I know I’ve come across the English phrase ‘forever’ in various contexts - even in the old testament - where it obviously would not have meant the literal eternity that you’re packing into that word.
And in the process of trying to look up some of those references online, I just now ran across this article which (while I can’t speak to the site’s pedigree or the scholarship pedigree of its writers) nonetheless expresses well the criticisms I’ve heard from other quarters as well. See what you think.
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“forever and ever,” the strongest possible reference to eternity and the form used throughout this book
Grant R. Osbourne, Revelation (Baker Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament)
“the possibility of an infinite number of past events” and “the impossibility of forever and ever”
you couldn’t make this up even if you tried
l can’t make what up? You gave me a couple sentence fragments, and the only complete sentence I got was informing me I couldn’t make something up.