Thanks in reply. For background, Randy, I’m a sociologist, rather than a linguist. My PhD included the sociological study of ideologies specifically.
This is the first time I’ve seen moderator Christy say she thinks “evolutionism” “denotes an ideology”. Looks like finally progress at BioLogos!!
If Christy has studied ideologies as a linguist, I’d be curious to hear which ones specifically she has studied, since up until today, she was apparently in “undoubted disagreement” with me about “evolutionists” and that “evolutionism is an ideology”. That’s why it’s welcome that she’s changed her mind, or at least expressed that view for the 1st time above. No shame in changing one’s mind for clarity! Now her view seems a closer match to what I’ve been saying at BioLogos for years (even before Christy was here!).
“the original concept (per the Wikipedia quote)”
Not a great source, and it doesn’t provide “the original concept”. You’re getting better than a Wikipedia article in this discussion, Randy, and in the links above. = )
Fr. Costache makes it pretty simple and clear in the link provided above, don’t you think? You certainly don’t have to be an Orthodox Christian to agree with him. But if you do disagree with him, then please explain where/how.
In case this might help, from a previous discussion here in 2015:
“The word ‘evolutionism’ is an unfortunate one, as is scientism.” – Sy Garte (10 Misconceptions about Evolution)
In that thread, both Sy Garte & Steve Schaffner began by opposing anyone’s use of the term “evolutionism”. To his credit, Sy Garte changed his mind during the conversation, and now seems to accept it’s valuable and specific meaning. The next step will enable gaining wider awareness of the impact of ideological evolutionism on not a small number of fields.
“I think that I entirely agree with you, and I think (other than in the lingusitic sense) so does Steve. I mentioned this discussion to my wife who is a linguist and she basically agreed with you about the use of terms evolution and evolutionism, so (since she is always right) I hereby withdraw my comment regarding my unfortunate use of the word “unfortunate”.” 10 Misconceptions about Evolution
Does that also help with your resistance to proper and meaningful usage of “evolutionism”, even while we are both not YECists?
“folks who had been taught to fear it as an ideology of secularism. I think that “extreme secularism” or something similar would be more helpful. So, I don’t use “evolutionism.” There is too much cultural baggage.”
Well, isn’t that how BioLogos labels in on the Questions – which it calls an “atheist worldview”? Is it that you’re instead simply uncomfortable with the term “ideology”, rather than just “evolutionism”?
I believe the reason most people who support TE/EC go quiet about ideological evolutionism is because a number of them don’t wish to label as “supporters of theistic evolution”, but rather as “theistic evolutionists”. Thus, it makes perfect sense that theistic evolutionists don’t like being called ideologues. The cost of refusing to label “evolutionism” as an ideology comes with an inability to identify ideology when it is being presented as good science.
We’re all in agreement, apparently, that “evolutionism” is not good science. What seems still open is whether “theistic evolutionism” also counts as an ideology or not. That issue makes this conversation difficult, though not without possibility of graceful dialogue.