Reasons why Genesis is real history

Faith & Science Conversation
41

I doubt that was the intent.

Evolution has no power, in the sense that you claim.

You can quote whoever you want, it changes nothing. You can claim mountains of data, but it is limited in its scope or usefulness.
No one in their right mind would claim that evolution is a dying theory but then, neither is Christianity a dying faith.
There is a lack of perspective here. Despite claims otherwise the majority of reasoning s still “Black & White”. The idea that science could have got anything wrong seems to raise indignation and posturing. The idea that anyone cold accept only part or even 90% of the theory seems also impossible.
There is an old saying about making deals with the Devil. Perhaps it would have been better to let sleeping dogs lie instead of feeding them.
Science is just not that important or a problem to the majority of Christians. Highlighting potential problems is a risky business. You can lose more than you win.

Richard

42

Which, again, shows how fully evolved we are, as plenty of wealthy, educated, sane Americans, in particular, for historical reasons, believe it with missionary zeal that worked on me in '69.

43

Evolution is not the be all and end all of society or humanity. You got burned and fooled.
Ces las vie

Richard

44

Not quite – free markets ended those, but free markets and capitalism are not the same; indeed Adam Smith noted that capitalism is inimical to free markets – it will thrive with them but trend towards stifling them.

I second that. The only instances I’ve seen where anyone got “deconditioned” have been in real life with face-to-face interactions.

45

Obviously not, since you are asked regularly for solid arguments – that shows that the essence of science requires willingness to be wrong.

46

That assumes the arguments , or at lease tangible proof of them exists.
Sorry, God don’t work that way.

Richard

47

Good point. Eric Williams’ awesome 1939 Ph.D. thesis is my lodestone in this: Capitalism & Slavery.

48

Depends.
Few years ago I held these beliefs.

Gay people, as good as they may be, are going to hell and hell is a place where they will be tortured forever and ever. I personally did not hate them but felt unfortunately that’s what God said and so that’s what is happening.

I felt every contradiction in the Bible had a solution on why it’s not a contradiction but part of a systematic theology of one story. All authors guided by God to create a perfect story with one view.

I was disgusted by Trans people. Did not like them. Thought every trans person was some delusional creep. That conversion camps was probably better for them.

I felt that racism was mostly over. That most of it was just lazy self victimizing people.

I felt that the Bible clearly taught women could not be elders. Thst they could not be pastors. That at best they could lead a woman’s group.

But now I think that the LGBT community are normal. They just don’t fit within the lens of a patriarchal binary heteronormative culture. I affirm them as Christians.

I went from thinking of hell as a place we choose to go by rejecting the teachings of God to this unjustifiable horrible place God created that I try to ignore to it being a place where we are annihilated and does not actually exist to a metaphor that ultimately points towards universalism.

I read a lot of stuff by Angela Davis, Linda Tuhiwai Davis, Bear Heart, Frantz Fanon and many others including stuff on things like the Freed Man Banks, segergation, and so on. Lots of stuff that really highlighted how marginalized communities are still very much oppressed and how white privilege comes in so many little ways where nuance is so easy to miss. Even when you are aware, even when you are wanting to be open and pay attention to it will still go over your head and you’ll say stupid hurtful things. It was only a few days ago that I finally realized a very racist stance I had.

Which was…. Science is more important than people. That why would an indigenous person be pissed off about the skull of someone who died thousands of years ago. Just because it’s their ancestor, who they don’t even know but was found in the general area they are from but did before Christ was here. That it’s more important for us to get that skull, place it in a shelf and let everyone learn from it. Now I realize that’s horrible. That yeah it makes sense why a native America is pissed off that the descendants of colonizers have their ancestors skull in a box drilling into it, messing with it and placing it in a museum predominately visited by white people. That it belongs to the indigenous community. If they want to study it and share the science then they can, or they can choose not too.

Realized that just because a law is applied to everyone does not mean that law was created to police everyone. Such as when I was in school and there was regulations passed that no one could

  1. Wear hair extensions.
  2. Have big hair that could block a students views.
  3. Wear beads in their hair.
  4. Could only wear their hair straight and natural or in a ponytail.

I use to think how can that be racist if it’s for everyone. But now I can tell it was most definitely created to explicitly push black hair towards being more white.

I now know anyone, include a single childless gay woman, can be a pastor and be a great pastor. Someone who can most definitely lead an entire congregation.

So many of my views have changed from my time in here. Mostly from Klax, Christy and Jay. They were all directly influence on my working through all that stuff.

This place is not even focused remotely on social issues. That was just people correcting me consistently for years. Being obviously good people who were far kinder than me. Inspiring me to look more deeply into things I don’t care about or things that annoy me.

Also I imagine thousands of seeds are planted that we never see grow.

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49

Genesis does not require a global flood, and geology clearly rules out any global flood at any time with eukaryotes. (Technically, the sparse evidence about conditions in the Hadean to earliest Archean means that a global ocean is not impossible, and the earth was melted by the impact with Theia, if that counts as a flood). Unless flood geology gives specific parameters about the flood - what layers are before versus during versus after, how fast the water is moving, salinity, etc., it cannot honestly claim to provide any explanation of anything. Of course, if one model doesn’t work, they can try another, but in practice a global flood is an excuse to ignore any aspect of geoligy, chemistry, or physics they don’t like, not a serious scientific model.

There’s very little in Genesis 1-9 that can be looked for archaeologically. The list of descendants of Noah in Genesis 10 includes many place and people names known archaelogically, some fairly early Bronze age and some first documented somewhat later. The tower of Babel is recognizably a ziggaurat, whatever the associated story is intended to convey. With Abraham onwards, we have clear correspondance between Genesis and the history and geography of the ancient Near East. Peoplie groups, locations, customs, vocabulary, names, etc. are right for early 2nd millenium BC. We don’t have any contemporary reference to any individuals named in Genesis, but unless we find local records from that time, that would be rather unlikely. (There’s a possible reference back to Abe in a place name from the 900’s).

As a not particularly distinguished lineage, there doesn’t seem to be reason to invent Abraham and descendants.

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50

It doesn’t. It only shows an unwillingness to waste time on opinions that aren’t backed by evidence or arguments.

Do you have any evidence or arguments for that?

(Any argument which is equally (in)valid if ‘God’ is replaced by e.g. ‘bigfoot’ will be ridiculed)

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