HE IS ALMIGHTY AND ALL KNOWING AND ALL EVERYTHINMG.If he cant find a way or make one he is uselless.And ill die by that statement.No counter argument from theists can convince me that an almighty beign couldnt possibly create a perfect world with limited free will in it.
I dont understand why did Jesus need to show this love and good guy charactert to us when we are"inherited good".Maybe something else is here?
It is a contimuation…
Freewill. You way up the risks and make a decision.
11th commandment. Thou shall not get caught.
But God is omnificent so you cannot conceal your actions.
Jesus is the escape clause = forgiveness.
Richard
@NickolaosPappas you are right, although I really do not think there is any such thing as limited freedom. You are right and you are living in it.
You are living in a world where people have freewill and there is still justice, although we might have to wait for the next world to receive it. Even so, the next world is really longer and more real than this one, so it is a good bargain. Good things come to those who wait.
You cant be sure there is a next world. I want justice here not in whenever the second coming will happen. God purpose is for us to suffer in order to enter heaven? What kinda twisted game he plays ? Suffer now enjoy eternity . Really?
If this is the game im out.Its rigged. I shall consider offing myself i guess
Sorry but that is simplistic. The justice you are talking about is retribution or consequence. Freewill means no consequences. Consequences mean coercion. If killing someone means eternal damnation then it is not a “free” choice" It is loaded!
Hobson’s choice is a reality. Our freedom is within parameters. Whether those parameters are physical, as in having no wings to fly, or circumstantial, being in the wrong place or not having the right skill or qualifications, they still exist. They are the practical application of an idealism.
Universalism is based on the notion that Hell is intolerable. That is a purely human response. Perhaps it is not how God thinks?
However, our understanding of God is that He is both loving and compassionate. Perhaps even this is not exactly the same as what God actually is?
Richard
“Therefore know for certain” Acts 2:36
It’s really quite amazing when you look at the passage and see how the argument rests on 3 types of evidence. OT prophecy being fulfilled, eyewitness testimony (ie. historical evidence today), and a self-evident work of the Spirit.
Suffering is a bitter pill that is best shared with “brothers and sisters” that you can trust and will honor you.
I’ve been very encouraged by the work of Allender and Longman in The Cry of the Soul. Please consider reading or listening to the audiobook.
And what if our notions of Heaven and Hell are based on a linear understanding of suffering? What if heaven was an instance of Joy and hell an instance of horror or disappointment. Without a linear passage of time there would be no suffering as such. Hell would just be the realisation that you had got it all wrong.
Richard
Whenever I see this explanation there are two thoughts that go through my head:
-
My parents created me, and they didn’t hide from me after I was born. They made their existence very obvious, and they physically stood in front of me and tried to teach me good from evil. I never felt like my free will was compromised because of what they did.
-
What is heaven supposed to be like? It seems that heaven will be a place where God’s presence is obvious to all, and heaven will supposedly be free of evil and suffering. If heaven can be like that, then why not Earth?
3 Likes
I think you have already answered this yourself.
applies to earth but not Heaven. We sacrifice freedom for peace
But see my comment about linear understanding above. Heaven on earth is practically impossible because of the dynamics of freedom. If there is no choice but to do good then there is no choice.
Heaven on earth would forbid an adrenaline rush because someone might get hurt, but if hurt is impossible then there can be no fear or adrenaline. Frankly, Heaven on earth would be boring!
Richard
Richard
Who is responsible for the existence of antitheists? I find it strange that a God who supposedly wants to have a relationship with people and wants us to spend an eternity with him, simply plays the longest game of hide and seek with us. And the hiding happens with everyone, his “children” and to those whom this God wants to become his children.
Think about it. Let’s say I want to become a Christian right now. What will change after I pray a prayer of salvation? Nothing. I’ll be asked to believe that God is somehow in a relationship with me, but I’ll remain with the same questions and doubts.
1 Like
Let’s say God must remain hidden. Then why not give us a sure way of getting him to respond to us? For instance, everyone gets a personal revelation as soon as they ask Jesus to reveal himself, or something similar.
A God who wants a relationship would find a way to connect with us without us being confused as to what this God is actually like.
Um, err, that is a contradiction.
The dynamics of God sitting in space like the moon are fairly obvious. Either God dictates and therefore removes personal freedom, or He does nothing and is deemed impotent and therefore ignored.
Richard
Ohhh yeah . Yeah that works. I’m sure my fellow brothers and sisters will heal open wounds just as God will. Sure sure.
What if THE BORTHERS AAND SISTERS CAUSED YOU TO SUFFER. WHAT A SIGHT HUH?
Don’t judge said Jesus. It was the most idiotic and stupid command he gave to us. Yeah don’t judge . Just turn your check to the evil that’s happening ,yeah don’t try to stop it. Just cope with your “brothers and sisters”
I’m so furious by your comment and I’m sorry for the words I’ve said above.
Suffering is a part of life. No pain, no gain as the wise saying goes. If you want to enjoy life, play by the rules. Suffering is not evil. Causing suffering for no good purpose is. It can be forgiven, if there is a true change of heart…
I am sorry, but freewill means the ability to choose. If there are no consequences, there is no choice. can choose Coke or Pepsi, but if they both taste the same? I
For some people Hell may be preferable to admitting that they are wrong.
Our understanding of God is that God can be trusted to do the right thing. Others say that this may not be true, so they do not trust God, but trust in their own judgment even though they have made many errors in judgment…
let me ask you this. Do you justify causing suffering IF YOU HAVE A PURPOSE?
Read what you wrote again please. I refuse to believe you justify inflicting suffering IF you have a purpose
millions out there die because of SUFFERING. No pain no gain is bs.
Even in the fitness community it has been shown to be nothing but a fraud
Did we inherit good though? Did I write something like that? It would you nice if you clarified to what part of my message are you replying.
My apologies for the offense my comment brought. Rereading it now I can see how it came across in a flippant tone. That was not my attention. As I look back on the suffering I have endured in the past few years, I cannot imagine how I could have made it this far without the friends I have.
Allender and Longman’s book goes deep, where I have merely glanced the surface.
And yes, our friends will at times betray us as well.
I do not read Jesus to be a pacifist in the turn the other cheek passage. Once I heard it explained the significance of turning the left cheek. For a person like a master hitting a slave, this would have been perceived as a great offense. The same for stripping naked in a corrupt court of law.
Sorry for that .It was my view comming in to the comment.I dont hold to original sin and that “people are born bad” theology.So sorry for that my mistake
You havent felt God betraying you ,trust me. Its way worse than this.
No need to apologize.My anger its not at you .My anger is towards that ignorant Father(if he exists)that is watching us right now