I guess it depends on the button.
But thanks for the good word!
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One of the speculations about humor (at least here in the U.S.) was that in the early to middle of last century (decades following WW2) nearly all stand-up comedians were either Jewish or Black. In other words … (so the speculation ran…) - comedians seem to come from among those who are persecuted, suffering, or powerless. And not so much found from among those in power, who presumably are less willing to see the humor in anything while they are living in fear of their power slipping away. If one has something (an idol) they wish to protect, they are much quicker to take offense when that idol is poked at and much less likely to be able to laugh at themselves and their own group (which is perhaps the first sign of any truly good comedy?); we find it nearly impossible to laugh at ourselves when we’ve got a sacred cause whose power we feel is being challenged. So in the U.S. (both the far right and the far left) either already were or have been turning into a lot of humorless fundamentalists.
What do you make of that thesis? First of all - is it even correct that most comedians of that era were not white Protestants? They took this as blindingly obvious - but I’m not one who can just name famous comedians off the top of my head, so I’m in no position to know. What do you all think?
[One thing I think Skye is completely right about is that weaponized humor just doesn’t work and is in fact a contradiction of itself. I have seen/heard this first hand as I watched some comedians that some of my more right-leaning friends have recommended me as their answer to what they feel (with plenty of understandable justification I think) is the vile state of the left-leaning mainstream entertainment industry. And after taking a listen, I’m with Skye. There was a lot of very clever snark indeed and just dripping with weoponized sarcasm. It didn’t work as real humor, but was just angry fear lashing out (or more likely: monetized voices quite willing to capitalize on that also-very-lucrative niche) - leaving me feeling like I needed a bath after listening. No doubt they would level the same charge against mainstream humor these days, and yet - the mainstream humor that I see working (and that actually makes me laugh in more hearty ways) is humor that pokes at itself as well as at others. But I guess when we’re busy being angry or hurt or under perceived culture-war threat, we can only feel and react violently to the pokes at our own sacred turfs.]
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It has the ring of truthiness to me. Early in 2016 my extremist sister would post what seemed like unseemly gloating in ways I could imagine her howling at. Not at all haha funny.
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If by mature you mean pretty much dead. I do find that I have more patience and take less offense from non-Christian’s, but am still pretty sensitive to what my fellow Christians say. Not that I am much better, as I am sure I offend them as well by my lack of tact and humility.
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Seems that way! I think what I envisioned with the phrase was somebody who is able to laugh at just about everything (though not at another person’s present misery or any evil situation of course). But that is ready to engage with you positively even over stuff that any normal person would be strongly disposed to consider an affront to themselves. I’m not that person, to be sure. But I think I’ve been around people that struck me as being sort of that way. Enough for me to notice and admire them for it anyway.
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I agree–it seems in the spirit of Proverbs 12: 16
Fools show their annoyance at once, but the prudent overlook an insult.
That shows up in anyone, whether religious/ Christian or not.
Thanks.
there are nuances, of course-. But I can get pretty het up about tiny things.
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Was driving this afternoon, and heard that quote on the Holy Post!
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Dallas Willard is pretty deep…even though I have not read a lot of him.
Which one?
The thesis regarding cherry picked “statistics” from particular group of comedians who already fit the bill?
Bosch! Quatsch! My eye!
And obviously whoever is saying this Quatsch didn’t watch SNL with it’s all (nearly all) white cast and occasional visits from Eddie Murphy and (I think) Richard Pryor.
That extemists tend to have no real sense of humor?
Well, that seems about right. But not certain enough to say it as if it were.
I’m in no position to defend their thesis myself … but I don’t think it fell over yet quite this easily … because according to Wikipedia, SNL wasn’t on the scene till the mid 70s. Obviously they aren’t claiming there are no white comedians now or even in the latter half of last century. I think it was more about the 40s to the early 60s - and that much of American comedy is owed to non-white, non-Protestant sources - in other words: to peoples who were not viewed as the mainstream of U.S. society then.
[Obviously one can find exceptions, like Bob Hope or maybe a few others - entertained soldiers in WW2 didn’t he? - but that could also just be a matter of exceptions proving the rule. Of course, I didn’t recognize some of the names they brought up. Maybe it’s telling (about me) that the only comedians whose names come to my mind are mostly white.]
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Sorry. Missed the time period.
SNL started in '76 I think.
I still want numbers from someone who knows. I think the person is cherry picking.
Also, in the '50s and '60s the idea of a “stand up” comedian as we know it now, I believe, didn’t exist. Yes, there were those who stood, but they delivered a well-rehearsed script, in which any spontenaity was rehearsed as well. And they weren’t all minorities.
I think we need to consider who was doing what kind of comedy and why. There was a good deal of comedy on tv, for example, but how many black people were in tv shows and why?
And so on.
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Yeah! That would be nice. It fascinated me that they jumped on this as “so blindingly obvious” that they felt no need to back up what they were saying with actual examples. Here is where interactivity with the Holy Posters would have been beneficial. “So … who are all these black or Jewish comedians from that time that you can list off?..” As I recall they did mention a couple of …groups? … by name, but I’ll have to go back and listen again to remember. And they were only mentioned in passing.
[Oh - and also - part of their ‘thesis’ I think was that much humor that is white, Protestant was more a British import than native-to-U.S. soil. So that would probably even cover Monty Python / SNL types of humor.]
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I was thinking they discussed how the comedians were primarily black or Jewish prior to WW2, Anyway, I agreed with their observation that Babylon Bee used to be funny but have devolved into meanness with a thin veneer of humor to justify it.
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Thanks for the clarification. I obviously wasn’t listening carefully enough then and was probably putting a nonexistent thesis out here!
Either way, it was an interesting discussion of the overlapping Venn diagram of comedians and preachers in giving prophetic words, which in many cases the comedians were dominating.
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The bottom paragraph made me think of preachers such as Joel Osteen who preach that with Jesus everything is supposed to be sunny, from finances to friendships. It’s something that I’ve heard from too many preachers who treat the Resurrection as the victory while regarding the Cross as something of a defeat – which is totally backwards.
Indeed some ancient liturgies embody this when during the Creed, the priest (and all other clergy and servers) kneel at the beginning of the line “who for us men and our salvation came down from heaven” and return to standing at “was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate”, thereby indicating that the Crucifixion was the victory. Many modern Christians in the west would suppose that returning to standing would happen at “on the third day He rose again” because especially thanks to the radical reformation and its heirs we’ve been imbued with the idea that dying isn’t victorious and so rising again must be the victory.
But rising again is the “sunny side of Christ” which is not what “we must look to”; it is the “dark side” where the victory is found.
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This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters.
1 John 3:16
That depends on what you mean by “work” – weaponized humor is superb for getting poorly informed followers energized against some foe.
I guess I’m both: I get annoyed and/or upset so quickly at inanimate objects not behaving as I wished that I think the speed of light is left at the starting gate, but insults generally amuse me more than anything. A friend had to step in and physically protect me one day when I couldn’t help laughing at the verbiage salad some guy was launching at me (due to a caustic remark I made about some racist garbage from one of the guy’s companions) – the guy found being laughed at insulting enough his words turned to gibberish and his fists tried to take over.
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Indeed! All too true. And I was probably too quick to self-righteously think that I don’t indulge in weaponized humor of my own brand (or others with whom I may resonate). It is easy to look down on the snarky humor of others when I don’t resonate with their tribe in the first place. I’m sure this very forum would be full of examples where my own words would betray my wish to feel all mature in this area.
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