Pithy quotes from our current reading which give us pause to reflect #2

Faith & Science Conversation
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In fact, I still intend to keep putting any pithy quotes in the original thread since this thread (so far) doesn’t seem to be the repository for such things yet, but is more about cats or finding fault with the other thread. If this new thread ever starts becoming a general repository for some actual … pithy quotes, then I’ll get on board. Until then, though…

And also one reason to prefer staying with the old thread is that if I want to search for something from that thread, I have only one thread to search. Which is kind of nice.

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Ah! I did not realize the other post was still active. I thought it had reached its limit and this was its continuation. So, nevermind, carry on. And a quote:

“Of all the things I’ve lost, I miss my mind the most.”

― Mark Twain

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I ain’t touching it … on purpose, and was hoping no one else would either.

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Remind me what it was again that chased you away from the original thread?

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I’ve found that handy too. More than once I’ve looked for this article Phil posted giving someone’s 20 best books for some period of time. It’s where I got the lead to read Jayber Crow. I’ve also gone back to find other people’s recommendations which has connected me to other enjoyable reading.

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LOL! I thought my “cat article” was share-worthy, if, for no other reason than that there is at least one cat-lover in Biologos, and because there are some people in Biologos who reject the notion of demon-possession, attributing all purported cases to some mental disorder. (For the record, I have shared the same article with private kin of mine, too.)

  • So, … believing “my” article share-worthy, Pithy Quotes #1 was the obvious place to share it, rather than starting a brand-new thread … at exactly the same moment that I wanted to share the article. But when I went to post my link in that thread, I was unexpectedly and surprisingly taken, not to the end of that thread, but to the beginning of the thread. I must be the only person in Biologos who has searched that thread: for its beginning, its end, or something specific that I thought I remembered see in it,and found myself mentally exhausted scrolling through boucoup messages for what I was looking for. As a consequence, I thought to myself, Nuts! I give up, I’ll just start a new thread. Next Question: If a new thread, … what to call it. I could have called it, Cat’s and Schizophrenia episodes, … but I didn’t. Instead, I chose something that could, in an of itself, function as a Pithy Quotes #2 thread.
  • That’s it, short and simple. Nothing devious, nothing–or so I thought–certainly not offensive, or ungracious. And yet, from the beginning, I’ve raised eyebrows. More eyebrows than my "Historicity of Moab and Moabites thread, which I actually had intended to expand, first, to Historicity of Moab and Moabites, and Ammon and Ammonites, then to Historicity of Moab and Moabites, Ammon and Ammonites, and Edom and Edomites. But I never got around to the latter two, … but will.
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I’m always reading that dog ownership will extend an old person’s life. While it is true that I’m not dead yet and have had a steady stream of dogs in my life, I have no research to point to in support of that conclusion. Of course, it doesn’t deter me from putting my faith in dogs. My father in law, on the other hand, lived to 97, fifteen years past the death of his wife, with only the help of his cat Gracie.

If it were entirely up to me I’d diversify my holdings and also have a cat on hand. But my wife has played the dander card so dog will have to do. I may fave to improve my napping game too.

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Whatever happened to the “rule” that new threads should have at least some tangential relationship to the science-faith conversation?

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Historically, many cases of demonic possession have masked major psychiatric disorder. Our aim is to increase awareness that symptoms of schizophrenia are still being classified as demonic possession by priests today.

We report the case of a 28-year-old patient who had been diagnosed 5 years previously with paranoid schizophrenia (treated with clozapine, risperidone, ziprasidone and onlanzapine without a complete response) and was also receiving treatment in a first episode psychosis unit in Spain. The patient was led to believe by priests that her psychotic symptoms were due to the presence of a demon. This was surprising because some of the priests were from the Madrid archdiocese and knew the clinical situation of the patient; however, they believed that she was suffering from demonic possession, and she underwent multiple exorcisms, disrupting response to clinical treatment.

Patient insight is an important factor in response to treatment, so religious professionals should encourage appropriate psychiatric treatment and learn about mental illnesses.

Go to:

Background

The peculiarity of this case is that the patient attributed her symptoms to a malignant spiritual experience, presenting little awareness of the extant disease. Also, the patient was led to believe that her psychotic symptoms were due to an evil presence by religious clerics from the Archdiocese in Madrid, Spain. She was given multiple exorcisms, disrupting clinical treatment response. The patient had persistent kinesthetic hallucinations despite receiving pharmacological treatment (high doses of risperidone, and previously received treatment with clozapine, olanzapine and ziprasidone and psychotherapy). We conclude that religious professionals should encourage appropriate psychiatric treatment and increase their knowledge of mental illnesses.

Go to:

Case presentation

This case report describes a single, 28-year-old woman who attended sessions of exorcism and spiritualism as she said she felt the presence of an ‘evil spirit’. The patient had schizophrenia and at the time was receiving treatment at a first episode psychosis unit after a psychotic episode a year before. She had attended daily Mass during the previous 6 months. The patient displayed partial insight, saying that half of her symptoms were due to the mental disorder and the other half were due to the presence of a spiritual being. At this point her only desire was to ‘remove all her symptoms’.

Some months later the patient contacted a clergyman via a website. The clergyman was a renowned expert on exorcisms and a frequent guest on TV programs on paranormal phenomena. During this period the patient received a total of eight sessions of exorcism, and described deeper sleep and feeling more restful.

Family members began to express distrust about the exorcisms because the patient shouted, writhed and occasionally vomited during the sessions. As a result they contacted therapists in the unit for an opinion on meetings with the priest. We were very concerned about the patient’s situation and also disappointed with the clerics’ reaction.

Given the unusual course of events and the fact that the patient’s mood had been markedly depressed since her parents and our unit had forbidden her to visit priests, we contacted an official institution in an effort to convince the patient that her symptoms were due to a mental disorder and not demonic possession, and to improve her insight into her mental disorder. We had previously explained the psychiatric diagnosis to the clergyman. Also we started antidepressive treatment with sertraline.

Go to:

Biographical history

When she was 22 years old, the patient began to hear voices during a trip to the Canary Islands. The patient reported feeling that on one occasion someone or something invisible pushed her down the stairs. She stated, “the spirit got inside… raped me more than once… I started to feel a presence that made me squirm in bed, vomiting and feeling sick….” These behaviours led to her first psychiatric admission, following which she remained in hospital on a voluntary basis, describing a pattern of kinesthetic hallucinations and delusional interpretations. Her diagnosis at discharge was paranoid schizophrenia, treated with risperidone (6 mg/day) and alprazolam (0.5 mg/day). After 1 month, she had another psychotic episode which was treated with risperidone (9 mg/day), olanzapine (10 mg/day) and lorazepam (3 mg/day). A year and a half later the patient was admitted for a third time to the acute unit after jumping from a railing in an airport in response to instructions from auditory hallucinations. During this period the patient was treated with clozapine (300 mg/day), alprazolam (0.5 mg/day) and lormetazepam (2 mg/day).

Her last admission to the acute unit occurred after cessation of antipsychotic medication and cannabis use, resulting in promiscuous behaviour. Her treatment at discharge was risperidone (12 mg/day), risperidone depot (50 mg/14 days), biperiden retard (8 mg/day) and lormetazepam (2 mg/day).

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@Randy,

  • I’m beginning to think that I should have posted my first post in this thread in your “Humor & Theology” thread. Would you have minded? :laughing:
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The pithy quotes thread (as well as a few others) were grandfathered. And, as Paul said, we all tend to backslide and do the things we don’t want to do. Hopefully, some of the quotes quoted relate to faith and science, but it is good to be reminded .

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Religion is at its best when it makes us ask hard questions of ourselves.
It is at its worst when it deludes us into thinking we have all the answers for everybody else.
-Archibald Macleish

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  • Jeremiah 17:

    • 5 This is what the Lord says:
      Cursed is the person who trusts in mankind.
      He makes human flesh his strength,
      and his heart turns from the Lord.
      6 He will be like a juniper in the Arabah;
      he cannot see when good comes
      but dwells in the parched places in the wilderness,
      in a salt land where no one lives.
      7 The person who trusts in the Lord,
      whose confidence indeed is the Lord, is blessed.
      8 He will be like a tree planted by water:
      it sends its roots out toward a stream,
      it doesn’t fear when heat comes,
      and its foliage remains green.
      It will not worry in a year of drought
      or cease producing fruit.

  • Proverbs 10:25.

    • When the whirlwind passes, the wicked are no more,
      but the righteous are secure forever.
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I like it. It doesn’t say God will hunt you down and tear you to shreds. It says He warns you that some behaviors or habits of mind will leave you in the lurch when conditions go south.

It also does not say that believers aspiring to form godly communities should make sure the cursed know how much God is displeased with them. In fact, I’m not sure He is displeased. I think he merely winces at seeing an unwise and possibly regrettable harm befall one of His creations, especially one he has befitted to exercise wisdom but struggles to do so … just as we might feel if we see someone else’s young child climbing around in a grocery cart in an unsafe manner.

If you don’t mind, I’d like to make use of this soapbox to espouse the value of not embodying the rage we attribute to God nor of lauding those who do so.

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  • My opinion likewise. I like it even more than the Shema Yisrael: Play in the freeway can get you killed, playing off the freeway can be beneficial.
  • Knock yourself out, although I withhold a blanket endorsement of everything you post in this thread.
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That’s a very Eastern view; they tend to hold that people know they are broken and that the task of Christians is to live in such a way that broken people recognize a community where brokenness gets helped.

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That is probably more my bent but I don’t know that eastern traditions emphasize chastising those not living a righteous. Punishment seems more an obsession of Christianity.whether that is motivated by a want of a big enough threat to keep themselves in line or motivate others to get in line. But I don’t think God is any where near as coercive as so many of his folllowers.

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