I’m done here. I have a virus to study.
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More than a short period of time of isolation has already passed.
The original plan was to social distance and isolate so we did not exceed the capabilities of the hospital beds, ICUs, and respirators.
We did that.
And it is the responsibility of individual states, not the national government, to make such plans.
I asked you to support your claim that deaths came from those isolating.
You quoted an article about new cases, not deaths.
In this study, please differentiate between cases and deaths.
And, when considering policy, consider that we cannot live risk-free lives
and
people who give up freedom for a small increase in safety will eventually lose both.
Have you lived long enough to appreciate such a trade off?
I am just expressing an opinion, and calling out a lack of support for your assertions.
What study are you doing on the virus?
@kellyanna_99
Please don’t let my support for opening dismay you. I believe in personal freedom for individuals, and I fully support my church not opening now.
I will be glad when the border to Canada opens, as I want to visit my family in Thunder Bay.
For me in America it comes down to this. We have a constitution , and we have leaders in place at the federal, state, and local level down to the elders. Each will decide what fits. For better or worse. All we can do is reach out to others and tell them and that’s it other than our personal choice.
As for the congregation and you I would say just self reflect on doctrine and see if you agree with their doctrine or not on serious issues and if so then find a church that you believe is more bible based.
I went from attending Catholic Churches, to Baptist, to Methodist, to a churches of Christ as I grew in my faith and studied out scripture. I moved from each congregation because I had serious enough doctrinal differences that I felt wrong for being their. Now I’ve been at CoC and ICoC since 2008 with a exception from 2009-2014 when I was in the army and went through a few things and grew hard hearted and spent my days just in the gym and fight night bars. Then just slowly felt rage dissipate and am back in CoCs. If the church you’re in is a church where you would dread bringing along a random member to study the Bible out with a unbeliever or send a unbeliever to that church to study then it’s time to bounce. That’s the standard I use personally.
Politics, scientific beliefs, and so on plays very little role in how I trust my congregation to carry out the great commission. Then within that congregation, I choose naturally like everyone which members I associate the most with but i know I can basically pick any random member and bring them to a bible study with a unbeliever and trust they will hear the gospel accurately. I would not go to a church if I felt that was not true.
It can be stressful when others make dumb unscientific choices. It can also be stressful when you feel that the government is stepping beyond their authority to take control of a situation even if it’s for the better good. Unless you’re a machiavellian at heart. But there are thin lines that sometimes need to temporarily be crossed until a better solution is found.
Ultimately there is two serious problems. The death caused by the virus and the economic struggles of people forced to stay home. Partially reopening seems to be the only logical middle ground. Unfortunately people will die. Unfortunately some will still go out business. Ultimately, that is what will happen and is happening. America won’t stay on total lockdown for 18 months. So they are going to reopen. What we can do is talk to those with power , and those without, and encourage everyone to make the smartest choices.
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You mean like all the measures put in place at the airports, etc. after the 9/11 attacks? (What if you don’t feel like taking off your shoes?)
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Though not directed at me I believe there is a big difference having to take off your shoes vs having your business shut down and you’re forced into collecting non employment and you were able to pay your last rent but now you can’t and your landlord is not federally backed and so in a few weeks you’ll be homeless.
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Ah, you don’t seem to understand!
May God bless you.
And you do understand!
And May God bless you!
What if an airline couldn’t afford air marshalls, TSA workers, and all that and went bankrupt? Wouldn’t a lot of people lose their jobs?
That is not the way businesses work.
Prices for tickets will settle at an appropriate quantity of flights.
All (unregulated) businesses have a supply and demand curve which intersect where incremental value equals Incremental costs.
I bet there are not 36,000,000 tsa workers though in USA and that’s how many people are on unemployment atm and it’s so bad there are repeated financial investors and other organizations putting out how this is a “once in a generation to buy properties , including properties owned by landlords who is not being paid by their renters.”
Again, regardless if people like it or not the country is going to open. Did not the experts originally say it would have to go through a series of opening and closings to make economic struggles and virus related deaths balance out and so on?
So the country is definitely opening. I imagine 2/3rds of the people are going to disregard the old laws. I mean grocery stores have been maxed out this whole time. Constant shelf sell outs.
If my church was going to completely disregard scientific measures I would come up with arguments and appeals and ask to send emails to every member and find like minded members. Then go to a service and request a chance to present a solution, such as home church meetings for another month and see how other congregations are doing.
Really depends on the church set up. My congregation routinely has 3-8 elders working for free, 3-8 deacons working for free, and 1-3 evangelist working for free. Plus numerous people respected as teachers within the church. So we can easily have “Shepard’s to guide sheep” and keep accountability through small church home meetings of 6-15 people. Her church may not. If not, she needs to bring up the suggestion of adding more accountable men and women to help guide the body through home church meetings or something.
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Though not entirely sure of the correlation but yes of a business could not afford workers , many workers would be out of work. That’s what reopening is supposed to help flatten. The economic curve to help flatten debt and homelessness and evictions which it’s expected to be unheard numbers of over the next few months because the bill preventing evictions only protects landlords with federal backing which is less than 1/4 of landlords meaning g over 3/4ths of renters are not protected.
Here are the results in Georgia, the poster child for opening early, according to CNN.
Georgia’s case growth is half the national average.
My wife and I lead a married couples’ small group.
We have been meeting over Zoom.
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I don’t lead anything honestly as far as churches go. But I have been doing multiple weekly bible studies with various people who are not saved. Those are all still in person but we are always 6ish feet apart on benches in the park usually. For a fact I just met a woman today who was making my sandwich and had a beetle ( actual beetle not the band ) and so I pulled out my phone and she went on lunch and looked through my cellphones galley at all the insects on it. I even told her about the BioLogos podcast episode about beetles somewhat or at least mentioned in it been a while since I heard that one. We talked a bit about ecology and how southern magnolias evolved being pollinated by beetles and ect… we are going to go hiking this Sunday and looking through leaf debris for beetles actually. I also brought up my faith and she said she’s agnostic but was raised Christian and felt it was not for her necessarily. So I countered with well what if the doctrine you were taught was wrong and it’s shaped your paradigm with faulty lenses while reading the bible as a teen. That what if we do some
Bible studies together and I know of some great women who are insect nerds that are currently living here and maybe we can all hang out and if you have a bf definitely bring him along and we can hike, picnic together, and see what scripture says and work through tough questions. She said definitely. So that will be fun. Studying with one other guy atm but he’s flaked in the last four meetings.
I believe even during this time it’s still important for churches to physically meet , even as small groups, and for disciples to still carry out the great commission and that it’s possible to do while still maintaining a practical distance and following guidelines. So no sharing bibles or holding hands to pray and so on.
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Here is a Dad joke you can use:
Why did the dung beetles have to leave the formal party?
Because they were wearing dungarees!
One thing that needs to be considered when sending everyone back to work is the number who won’t die from contracting COVID-19 but who will suffer kidney, heart and other organ damage which leaves them in need of long term disability. That too would be a drain on the economy, and one that could be avoided if reopening were done with great caution rather than rashly.
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Hopefully you are right here. There’s some chatter about Georgia lumping together antibody tests with the viral tests which essentially creates a misleading picture of what’s going on plus other shady business to “look better”:
https://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/coronavirus/article242831786.html
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I didn’t mean to imply they are exactly analagous. But there was a recession after 9/11 and people were inconvenienced by all sorts of measures to keep us safe. But suddenly the narrative for protestors has morphed into liberty and freedom at all costs, with gun-toting, confederate flag waving right-wing fine people.
Why couldn’t we elect leaders who take science seriously?