On Allying One's Self With One Devil To Fight Another Devil

That T-shirt may have an unintentionally Christian edge that maybe will not have occurred to her!


I go to church with extremely conservative people. My family is nearly all evangelical christian (U.S. style). My coworkers are nearly entirely nonchristians ( polite atheists to agnostics to religiously disinterested) with two exceptions that I know of.

I live and move and have my being in two very different worlds. As I always have done.

My biggest concerns right now are: 1) finding a church where I don’t feel like I have to justify everything I think all the time, or just keep my mouth shut, 2) not having a government that is entirely focused on “us vs them.”


A Narnia reference I’m guessing.

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I’m listening to Douglas Wilson’s Father Hunger, yes I know a friend of James White, and some would see him as worse than the devil himself :grin:

This quote jumped off the proverbial page for me and may be apropos in this context as a kind of apriori consideration for any ambition:

“In fact, being in love with honor from others (without reference to God) is something that prevents us from being able to trust in Him. ‘How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?’ (John 5:44).”

And to reinforce the point that we are potentially our own worst devil:

“This is why our ambitions must be converted the same way the rest of a man is—through the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. Death is the ultimate detox center. It purifies everything. So, in order to be a clean ambition, it must be a resurrected ambition. Any other way, it will corrupt everything it comes in contact with.”


No - not even that! Was just thinking that “So many Christians, not enough lions” could also mean … So many cultural or political Christians, with not many being true “Lion” disciples. Not the intended meaning, of course, but probably a fair-game criticism from a different angle.


So the lion representing carrying on in the true spirit of the Christ, not actually being the Christ himself which I infer is what Aslan represents in those stories. Makes it more relevant for people just looking to find their way.


You surely aren’t referring to the Detroit Lions?
(They finally won a game. Scott was astonished.)


So did where my father teaches: they made it to (and won 38/21) the conference championship for the first time in 19 years, and got to the FCS playoffs for the first time ever.

(further note-if they win the first round, they will play my father’s parents’ alma mater).

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Nicely put. Reminds me of the need for antagonism Critchley wrote about in his intro to continental philosophy:

“Mill compares the need for such antagonism or dialectics with the checks and balances that are an essential part of a liberal and democratic system of government… two halves of a larger cultural whole, and the truth in things philosophical will not be attained by affirming one side and denying the other, but as Mill says ‘by taking the other’s view in addition to its own’.”

I like how Hegel and Marx write about history as dialectical. One state of being gives rise to its contradiction, and through conflict the resolution or synthesis comes to be, which then gives rise to it’s contradiction and so on. And yet there is the wonderful outrageous wisdom of a triune God where unity and diversity are coequal. We do become like what we worship.


Yep! The Lion of Judah - a very biblically steeped reference - not to leave out an equally important part of the whole image: Christ as the slaughtered Lamb (an image from exactly the same passage in Revelation). That shouldn’t be left out either.

I suppose, not to be confused with the Detroit Lions either!


Well that pretty much covers both sides of the food chain then. All this fuss about how red in tooth and nail life can be … so long as all are fed don’t we have reason to give thanks?

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There is also the point that lions made being Christian a risky choice - you really had to be willing to sacrifice everything, including your life, if you wanted to follow Jesus. Not just some money or voluntary work or attending church services that may give you the feeling that you are a good Christian or are doing the right things.

I started reading some parts of old texts from the second and third century that were telling about what was expected from a person that wanted to be baptized and be a follower of Jesus. It may have taken three years of teaching and evaluating of the life style before a person was accepted for baptism. For many, it included also a change of profession because some professions were considered as not ok for a Christian - even teaching children was a questionable profession, although an exception might be done if the teacher could not do any other work. A necessary comfort for those waiting for the decision was that if they were killed by lions during the waiting time, their blood was considered as a baptism (in blood).


Reminds me of one of my cousins who tried to get rid of smoking. Went fairly well, except when he took alcohol - for some reason he always started to smoke when taking alcohol. At least in that case, one devil strengthened the other, not the opposite.

Among the young generations here, smoking and alcohol are less common now than decades ago. One reason is that many prefer dope instead. Often ‘just’ grass but sometimes also other stuff. One devil instead of another but which one is worse?


It baffles me that some people here especially supposed CHRISTIANS would gladly choose one evil for another.
I cannot express how sad i feel ,for this site as well.I never expected that.

Jesus wouldnt have done that.A christian sould not do that as well.

Just sad really.Morality amognst the community seems long lost.

No wonder why many like me dont want to be affilated with the term “christian” anymore.

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Hard to see why Christians would want take advice from someone whose conception of Christianity became untenable.

In practice, most seem to judge as “worse” any of the habits they don’t themselves personally struggle with. Though an extreme exception the other way would be those who very much did struggle with it and perhaps emerged (if they ever did) much worse for the wear. Those folks too will often have much passionate warning against that particular vice - as a voice of experience.

Food is another tricky one. It’s a good thing of course, but leave it to us to take anything good and necessary and turn it into a medication against some other persistant itch or thorn in our lives. Is it a less malevolent demon because of its origins from the hand of God? It doesn’t kill you nearly so quickly as some of these other things can. But unlike those other things, there is no possibility of us living without it. Sort of like sex too - society cannot live without it anyway, though an individual can choose to do so - some more easily I guess than others.

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Hard to listen to someone who holds that you should choose a lesser evil to defeat another evil.
I suppose thats you thats why you had to respond right?

Imagine a christian who knowlegable chooses evil,whatever evil that is .

Imagine beign so close minded that you cant take advice from people who have lived and studied your faith . Also did the organization hired you as a lawyer?From what im aware you arent even a Christian,so my comment wasnt even adressed to you.
But i guess you are one of those here that will choose a “lesser evil”.

You are right. One addiction often connects with another. It’s really hard.
I appreciate the comment about sex and food addictions, too–in some ways, that’s even harder to define and control. Thanks.

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Not for lack of trying (the control of others part). And also not at all hard to judge. We love drawing a myriad of lines in the sand - typically lines that don’t stray too near the things we ourselves struggle with - and then happily wag our fingers at others who cross those lines. Something of a dopamine rush in that I’m guessing.


I think, evolutionarily and sociologically, there’s a reason for that. It’s a fuzzy line, so that we kind of anticipate a social delineation–which may be why there’s a pretty common thread through most cultures. In Africa where I grew up, you could expect a very vocal commentary (particularly from the women) on deviation. It wasn’t just sex; I remember a young man who had experimented with drugs. All the folks in the room vocally denounced his behavior. While we don’t like it, there may be an interesting reason for it. I’d like to read more in that area.