Aye Kendel. I was being ironic obviously, as social justice doesn’t fit in the empty set of the intersection between science and faith. The only thing that happens at the intersection of these belief systems is that science is eroded, inverted and misused and open faith never comes in to it.
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What has The Flood got to do with science and faith? The Christain faith? Faith in the faith of Christ? That seems somewhat afar.
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Devil’s in the details, Terry. I just looked at the report.
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Around 70k per around 10ml? Well, take that Los Angeles
Almost 170k, haven’t looked up London’s population, but let’s call it 12ml. And yet if you were to ask a person on the street, they would probably give you a number between 400 and 3000, maybe 4000. Because that kind of numbers usually appears in mainstream media. How? By confusing homeless with rough sleepers. I even came across people saying that “it’s minuscule number compared to population”(with a kinda self congratulating tone), completely forgetting that NOBODY should be sleeping rough.
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Ah - so the mission of Biologos is all about nothing then! I didn’t realize we were the unfortunate cause of so much wasted time for you. Perhaps some encouragement for you to move along to more worthwhile endeavors is called for?
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And obviously I am not.
It depends on where you seek that intersection.
If you accept a (fundamentalist) pair of coordinates, then absolutely, there is a great deal of erosion of both science and faith. I would also include erosion of the self, which is another axis that is greatly affected by the first two. I don’t believe a healthy existence is possible at that point.
Thus my lack of interest in science as a (formal, “objective”) apologetic tool.
I think there is a more productive way to understand any intersection of science and faith. Scientific discovery and information helps us make better decisions regarding how we live out our faith. And I think (I am, however, often wrong in my thinking.), the conjoined concept of “science and faith” applied in this way is generous enough to speak both to orthodoxy as well as open faith.
I hope it is, because, whether we like it or not, for those with some form of faith, they really are conjoined in modernity, and separating them … well, I don’t need to explain. You already did.
This is not an easy thing, is it? Particularly, if one is used to holding (tightly to) a fundamentalist understanding of faith and the need to subjugate scientific understanding to it. It feels like making science a god, when one is used to an “All or Nothing” view of the matter and must reside with “Either/Or”. Maybe what I am suggesting is spiritual prostitution as I believe was suggested here. But more intelligent, faithful minds are looking at valuable ways to consider the questions that come up and how faithfilled Christians might navigate them for better or worse.
Your use of “The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love” is about social justice isn’t it? If it really is the only thing that matters, then it makes sense to attempt be more political in our (written) speech and persuasive in our reasoning. That requires connecting dots for those who don’t see the connections. Where there is an interest in science and scientific discovery, then there is supporting information that speaks to the group (the part that is willing to listen) in a way that really can lead to action.
I believe, though, that such work depends on coalition building. We both need to improve our skills there. But maybe that can be done. There’s always more to learn.
We can leave the flood where it lies, because we are not constrained to accept the coordinate pair we believe to be a null set. As postmoderns, we have accepted reception theory, and we can work with it. I think there is good potential for many relevant and practical threads that get to what matters, that also fit within the constraints of this forum.
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The place where science and other beliefs primarily interact looks like this.
The mission is incomplete in its scope as it doesn’t deal with the philosophy and psychology of belief. Of its own. Spinning atoms glorifying God. It therefore doesn’t have a robust, clinical, de-reconstructive response to the endless literalism and worse.
You had nothing to say about Ibram Kendi and CRT, or the Holy Apostles Soup Kitchen.
- I checked.London’s Metro population is about 9,541,000. 170,000 homeless/9,541,000 = 1.78%, about 2.5 times Los Angeles homeless population. But, as @Kendel said: “The devil’s in the details.”
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Thanks for clarifying. This actually makes it even worst than I first thought 
Intriguing. Can you expand? There’s a lot data, what are you referring to?
Yes, I can, Marta, but probably not until Sunday.
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My “details”:
- Who’s homeless?
- How did they become homeless?
- How long have they been homeless?
- Who’s priorities matter?
- What resources/services are available?
- Etc.
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I’ve been doing HASK for 13 years, added another church this year. I totally endorse Critical Race Theory, the American and even UK ‘centre’ right does not. As with all political issues, I wish to include and appeal to the right on the basis of their self interest and work with them. They have no idea that their stake is not what they have and see threatened in their hand.
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My point was that you had nothing to say when these topics came up here. No word of support. Ditto with posts about Martin Luther King
You’re absolutely right. They have no idea.
At one time, neither did we. I don’t know about you, but for me it took a long, sometimes humiliating, eclectic “education” that continues. It started when I was still pliable, not entrenched. I was ripe for it.
You?
Changing minds is hard work, particularly when people are already entrenched. Teaching is a sisyphean task as there are always new students whose paradigms are needing shifting or complete reworking. And some take longer than others. Some simply will not submit to change.
The extra challenge is that the Forum is democratic in that what is popular with other people keeps coming up. However, I think there are probably enough people here who do have interest in how to put actions behind their stated beliefs that we could have some productive discussions. I’m interested in those as well.
Planning and maintaining a good thread that doesn’t go off the rails is hard work. No one can keep it up all the time, without being on the payroll as a day job. SO that’s not going to happen. But I think it’s possible to do it periodically, if nothing really worth a try. But it requires a long-view approach and maybe a goal: discuss an article or a podcast as a spring board, encourage people to bring in relevant content and keep track of it for future reference. Seeking to persuade, rather than to win (I unfortunately am well trained in the smart alec answer, which is not productive in the end I would like to achieve).
Your point that “They have no idea that their state is not what they have and see threatened in their hand” is spot on, but as you said, they have no idea. How does one foster the “getting it.”
Thinking tangentially, have you ever talked about just that last question “HOw does one foster “getting it?” with anyone you would consider a mentor? It might be a good place to start in thinking about what action you can take to bring about the kind of threads you ( and others of us) would like to be a part of. Honestly, I think there is interest. It will definitely require embracing eclecticism.
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It’s too bad there can never be a robust, clinical, de-constructive response to the endless (and delusionally self-sufficient) quest for robust, clinical, de-constructive responses.
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Why does there need to be? That’s entirely a side issue. And what is the delusional self sufficiency? Whose?
(I like your dark side Merv. It accentuates the light. Like the Apostle Paul.)
I’m not sure if you’re expecting an answer, or is it all rhetorical so I’ll just state my “detail”(yup, just one): how on earth can ‘the system’ allow this to happen? I’m thinking more about London here, since figures are far worst than LA. Note : several years ago I watched a BBC documentary about the homeless in LA, so I wasn’t shocked by the figures today, although I was at the time. Of course the programme was making out just how terrible and shocking this is in a country like America, which in itself wasn’t misleading or untrue, but surely someone must’ve known this is pot calling kettle black?
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“The system” is comprised of self-interested humans, who have agendas that don’t include the value of caring for the poor, making mental health and drug rehab resources widely available and affordable, and making sure that a person working full time can have has enough money to live on somewhere safe with decent quality, normal public resources.
People with enough resources live a life organized enough to vote as well as fund campaigns and candidates who represent their interests. People who need those resources don’t.
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