On a Christian website dealing with science and faith

…4 out of the top 7 topics, including this one, are about The Flood.

When will they ever be about social justice?


Have you listened to some of the podcasts, like Graves?
Having said that, I have to acknowledge that many people’s questions on faith come about by biology here, and not strictly social justice. But it seems they have a ton of podcasts about that, especially about race and climate.

Can you set one up on social justice? Or does anyone have good links to some others?

I have to applaud @jstump and partners for their podcasts.


I would very much like to see something like this as well, would be glad to see you start something, have been trying to decide what could be an “acceptable” way of setting out the topic that not only considers social justice but maybe the even more problematic matter of engaging in social justice efforts with those with whom we don’t agree (on much), @klax.

Being in the middle of great disagreement about everything and social justice in particular, I’m uncertain if what I have in mind is even possible. Certainly not without some amount of discussion about what is commanded, required, needed, workable, etc.

I am also interested in what steps individuals with little or no organizational support can take, making effective use of their minute power.

I would be glad to work with someone with similar interests in developing some sort of thread and discussion. I’m also concerned that any effort at building concensus would eventually be highjacked and politicised.

I just ran across this Theos post today, @Randy , yes, there are all the good LoG podcasts related to S j that could also be spring boards. Perhaps something like this could be part of a springboard for discussion: Beyond Left and Right: why theology might have the answer to inequality - Theos Think Tank - Understanding faith. Enriching society..

Then again, these ideas might best be treated as separate threads. One thread can only handle so much.

In the end, it really is a lot easier to argue about the flood(s). Any people and animals involved are long dead. So, the stakes are a lot lower.


There has been a handful about social justice. Enough so that I have even been challenged , and I believe wrongly, that i get defensive about certain ones. Many of them, like ones about LGBT gets moved to PMs and most of the ones about immigrants tends to get political and shut down. Several times even in the environmental ones it’s brought up how some of the marginalized, like poor people , will be greater affected by climate change.

Several podcast episodes were dedicated to it as well.

What types of social justice ones do you want to see?

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This is a free forum where people are free to start topics (broadly speaking) about whatever element of science/faith conversation they wish. Inevitibly, the topics that the most people find interesting/engaging are the one’s that garner the most posts and often the most views. Unsurprisingly, for those who have questions about the Bible and Science, topics like the flood are important to them.

If you would prefer more topics about social justice and can adequately link them to science and faith then feel free to start some. I might suggest that it would be a more fruitful course of action than whinging and sneering from afar whilst doing very little to constructively change the conversation.


Aye Kendel. I was being ironic obviously, as social justice doesn’t fit in the empty set of the intersection between science and faith. The only thing that happens at the intersection of these belief systems is that science is eroded, inverted and misused and open faith never comes in to it.

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What has The Flood got to do with science and faith? The Christain faith? Faith in the faith of Christ? That seems somewhat afar.

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Devil’s in the details, Terry. I just looked at the report.


Around 70k per around 10ml? Well, take that Los Angeles

Almost 170k, haven’t looked up London’s population, but let’s call it 12ml. And yet if you were to ask a person on the street, they would probably give you a number between 400 and 3000, maybe 4000. Because that kind of numbers usually appears in mainstream media. How? By confusing homeless with rough sleepers. I even came across people saying that “it’s minuscule number compared to population”(with a kinda self congratulating tone), completely forgetting that NOBODY should be sleeping rough.


Ah - so the mission of Biologos is all about nothing then! I didn’t realize we were the unfortunate cause of so much wasted time for you. Perhaps some encouragement for you to move along to more worthwhile endeavors is called for?


And obviously I am not.

It depends on where you seek that intersection.

If you accept a (fundamentalist) pair of coordinates, then absolutely, there is a great deal of erosion of both science and faith. I would also include erosion of the self, which is another axis that is greatly affected by the first two. I don’t believe a healthy existence is possible at that point.

Thus my lack of interest in science as a (formal, “objective”) apologetic tool.

I think there is a more productive way to understand any intersection of science and faith. Scientific discovery and information helps us make better decisions regarding how we live out our faith. And I think (I am, however, often wrong in my thinking.), the conjoined concept of “science and faith” applied in this way is generous enough to speak both to orthodoxy as well as open faith.

I hope it is, because, whether we like it or not, for those with some form of faith, they really are conjoined in modernity, and separating them … well, I don’t need to explain. You already did.

This is not an easy thing, is it? Particularly, if one is used to holding (tightly to) a fundamentalist understanding of faith and the need to subjugate scientific understanding to it. It feels like making science a god, when one is used to an “All or Nothing” view of the matter and must reside with “Either/Or”. Maybe what I am suggesting is spiritual prostitution as I believe was suggested here. But more intelligent, faithful minds are looking at valuable ways to consider the questions that come up and how faithfilled Christians might navigate them for better or worse.

Your use of “The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love” is about social justice isn’t it? If it really is the only thing that matters, then it makes sense to attempt be more political in our (written) speech and persuasive in our reasoning. That requires connecting dots for those who don’t see the connections. Where there is an interest in science and scientific discovery, then there is supporting information that speaks to the group (the part that is willing to listen) in a way that really can lead to action.

I believe, though, that such work depends on coalition building. We both need to improve our skills there. But maybe that can be done. There’s always more to learn.

We can leave the flood where it lies, because we are not constrained to accept the coordinate pair we believe to be a null set. As postmoderns, we have accepted reception theory, and we can work with it. I think there is good potential for many relevant and practical threads that get to what matters, that also fit within the constraints of this forum.


The place where science and other beliefs primarily interact looks like this.

The mission is incomplete in its scope as it doesn’t deal with the philosophy and psychology of belief. Of its own. Spinning atoms glorifying God. It therefore doesn’t have a robust, clinical, de-reconstructive response to the endless literalism and worse.

You had nothing to say about Ibram Kendi and CRT, or the Holy Apostles Soup Kitchen.

  • I checked.London’s Metro population is about 9,541,000. 170,000 homeless/9,541,000 = 1.78%, about 2.5 times Los Angeles homeless population. But, as @Kendel said: “The devil’s in the details.”
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Thanks for clarifying. This actually makes it even worst than I first thought :flushed:

Intriguing. Can you expand? There’s a lot data, what are you referring to?

Yes, I can, Marta, but probably not until Sunday.

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My “details”:

  • Who’s homeless?
  • How did they become homeless?
  • How long have they been homeless?
  • Who’s priorities matter?
  • What resources/services are available?
  • Etc.
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I’ve been doing HASK for 13 years, added another church this year. I totally endorse Critical Race Theory, the American and even UK ‘centre’ right does not. As with all political issues, I wish to include and appeal to the right on the basis of their self interest and work with them. They have no idea that their stake is not what they have and see threatened in their hand.

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My point was that you had nothing to say when these topics came up here. No word of support. Ditto with posts about Martin Luther King

“Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” -Colossians 4:6

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