No Justice in the Curse

Faith & Science Conversation
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@Relates @Eddie Typical response. To God be all the glory, but when you fail, it’s all your fault. The cult of death, guilt and the seeking of undo suffering. This is very much how a mentally abusive spouse keeps his/her mate in check… "you are trash, useless when a child gets sick. But when that same mate lands a job via tough interviews… “see if it wasn’t for me you wouldn’t have gotten that job.”. It’s all God.

To God be the glory, except for our wanton sins. We are so horrible. Our actions to appease the God of the bible are but filthy rags. We don’t deserve saving from a curse upon past, present and future life that only God could render because two of His imperfect creations disobeyed one time. It’s our sins as to why this world is broken and there is suffering, wait… suffering is good especially unwarranted suffering…and death all because God who is the Alpha and the Omega and knows the end from the beginning has cursed us for all the sins and transgressions He knows we will do in our feeble notion of having free will. But He loves us.

And to all be the Gloriers. Next time you break a femur and it is sticking out of your skin, pray ok, pray for it to be healed. Pray hard ok. Try to pray on bended knees no matter how much it hurts because God to Whom all be the glory will fix it. Or, maybe you will be an atheist and seek the help of a doctor. Perhaps if you would just hunker down in all the pain and infection just a little bit more for the movement of the Holy Spirit and God’s mercy (mercy from a curse only he could met out). Sorta like Mr. Dillan Wolf… if he had just waited one more minute for God to move upon him, those 9 believers would be alive… but nope, that would have broken God’s plan… wouldn’t it.

There is a saying. There are no atheists in foxholes. Bull crap. There are only atheists in foxholes. It’s the “true believers” standing at the edge of the fox hole praying and watching the bullets wiz past them because they have true faith unlike you lamers who get healed by doctors and dentists and rely on the police to keep thugs from robbing your ever so faithful selves.

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@ninksink
I am not the one who said people are terrible. You are the one. You just put the blame on belief in God.

Where is your evidence? Communism is an effort to build a new society free of God. What was the result?

If you are satisfied without God, good for you, but you do not sound like it.

23

God’s into employment? Is he an Equal Opportunity Employer? He doesn’t discriminate on the basis of religion? Have I been under the mistaken opinion that hiring is done based on skills/training/abilities/experiences?

Well my younger son did get scholarships based on high academic achievement, so that in-directly help me. But I didn’t think God had much to do with it as my son’s religiosity is much less than mine.

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Certainly not magic. Doctors were from Columbia/Cornell Medical Center in NYC and their knowledge and technology can from years of research in the medical sciences.

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Oh contraire. But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. Isaiah 64:6

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Romans 5:12

Where do you think the curse came from? A curse which interestingly no believer in this conversation has addressed in the least. Rather I am called grumpy and angry and so on. Patrick is told that he is not part of his success with his children and job and life.

Seems the believers are satisfied in being the guilty of a singular act of disobedience by two imperfect creations who upon disappointing God are banished from eden where they lived without death… banished to a live, suffer, then die (Gen 3:16-19)… oh wait… there is a promise, oh how sweet of the most loving Powerful, a promise that one of her descendants would crush the serpent… but only after billions of humans would live, suffer, and die. And the promise must live, suffer and die… but wait… to fulfill the prophecy he has to live reasonably healthy till 33, then he had three bad days, well really one bad day where his magic blood was spilled, one day to rest and one day to resurrect all to save his loved ones from the curse that only He could execute upon all life forms on earth and in the Universe. So live on, make sure you suffer extra, a tad more than heathens who dance seductively to Madonna music and die in the hopes of being freed from the curse that you had nothing to do with along with the other innocent of the fall 50,000,000,000… ooops, wait, 49,999,999,998 humans these past 6,000 years.

And yes, you will be saved because you accept this most gracious gift of the great Execrator… but wait… hold on man… not until the gospel is spread to all the corners of the world… hmmm… what about all the folks who came before and on the day of that command “And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.” Mark 16:15-16… what is that last 3 words? Pray Tell. “shall be damned”… well it seems to me that command failed on the day it was given because it ignores all the ignorant of The Faith that died on that very day, and all the non-exposed to the faith who died and never had a freaking idea of the “message” all those 4000 years prior… Hmmm… There is always hope isn’t there.

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Ya… and tell that to all the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites who were destroyed totally (Deut 7:1-3)… meaning not just those of true free will age, but babies in arms, hobbled elderly, women, children, young girls, little boys…

Oh and that city of Jericho whose walls crumbled to the beautiful trumpeting music “and They devoted the city to the LORD and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it—men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.” That’s kinda like the Tutsi versus the Hutu in Rwanda with the machetes in hand not too long ago… and oh… aren’t those all Xians executing and being executed in that 3 month massacre of 300,000 people? Hmmmm.

Wait… oh… The Midianites…ya… kill all but the virgin girls who witness their flesh and blood hacked to death before their very eyes before they are taken away as sex slaves.

Oh. And don’t forget all the Jews persecuted and executed by Xians, cuz they were the Christ killers, even if they weren’t alive when Christ supposedly died… all culminating in the papal treaties with Hitler who found his “solution” to be, well lets just say, completing the task of those previous centuries of Xians killing those nasty Jews.

Oh, then all those Xians who are not true Scotts men… I mean true Christians, those followers of Martin Luther, Tindale … those nasty protestants… but there are the Catholics hunted by the sinless Protestants in Ireland until as of late.

Oh. Wait. Those horrid nasty men, women, children, babies, pregnant ladies, wee tots who were Sodomites and Gomorites (sp?)… oh… wait… wow… hmmm… the potentially billions of evil continually in their hearts Antediluvians…

All those victims did was not believe or were ignorant of The Faith. Tsk.

27

Why, yes. But only after about 1.5 years of my enlightenment by photons. Yes. Speed of light is what awakened me from my stupor. Oh, yes I was a believer once. Well… let me say it this way.

  • as a child I figured out it was all bull and renounced my faith whilst in Catholic school (much to the horror of fellow school mates)
  • I loved dinosaurs, knew all about them and read about them as a child.
  • then as an adult who mistakenly held the notion that, well though I am not a believer, faith ain’t all that bad for some folk. Live and let live. Avoid the born agains and continue being a heathen.
  • then I slipped into the faith a bit more vehemently. Into one of the many denominations that quite specifically denounced with Bible fact the other denominations.
  • then I was born again… of the photon… yup the photon that travels 186,000 miles per second, or 6 trillion miles a earth year or… from Andromeda 2.5 million light years (aka 2.5 million years away), a galaxy that is visible to the naked eye. And the dinosaurs, that ached to try and say they did not live millions of years ago because in my heart and mind I knew they did… but ya gotta hold on to that faith… ya gotta believe… all those bad things I did as a heathen… I deserved punishment and longed for redemption… but the dinosaurs, those damned dinosaurs.

You see during my fall into the faith. I read that bible. KJV, NKJV, and all the concordances and many apologists of my denomination… oh, don’t forget the original Hebrew… yup.

During my fall I read that bible at least 10 times (if not more) all the way through, one end to the other, out loud as part of our daily worship time. Yup. But as we read… we would stumble on Numbers 31 and such. Asking the apologists (a rather damning of the bible profession) who have to keep that bubble expanded for the pod people, thus steered unto the righteous understanding even if it didn’t really make sense… but it had to, to the faithful. So those explanations worked for a time. Again… the dinosaurs… my T-Rex would wag his tail once in awhile.

But the mighty and tiny photon freed my mind. And then, I read Genesis… and the curse and then it all dawned on me that the only entity capable of executing the curse did not deserve my reverence nor respect. But then, again… shoot it’s all a manifestation of the mind… so what the hell am I bowing to… my brain… brilliant move that was. It’s all bizarre… this faith thing.

So supernovae and the nature of the Universe freed my mind and then I realized. There is no way that the God of the bible exists, and if He does by some freak chance, I sure as hell ain’t kissing his evil nasty wicked petulant vindictive ass, no freaking way.

Then I see a recruitment video, a real one, for ISIS. Holy crap. Those wack jobs believe just as much if not more than the American Taliban (yes… Dawkins, relax man) and they are yabbering “ya allah ya allah, ya allah, BOOM some hapless pack of other Muslims is blown 80 feet into the air and Allah Akbar”… so whose prayers were being answered? Sure as hell wasn’t the hapless faithful was it?

Then only about, what, 2 months ago I found Aron Ra, Dawkins, Dennet, Sam Harris, Yale (yup excellent exhaustive courses on line on the OT and NT), Dogma Debate, The Thinking Atheist… oh,… hey can’t forget the Ken Hams, and Hovinds and Haggard and all the wacky things the 700 club says, oh and Ray Comfort and Walter Veith… gotta watch them man

But “the justice of the curse”, that is mine, well I came up with it on my own… most peeps focus on the Flood, but to me, the Flood pales in comparison to the curse laid upon the fallen imperfect creations of a creator not worthy of respect or admiration. Especially a creator who knew in advance all that would come in his creation… that’s just not justice for a wee tiny single first disobedient choice. That, my dear friends, is the act of a monster.

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I just have one word to say about this: fuhgeddaboudit

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ninksink:
Really enjoyed this. Thanks. You didn’t mention Christopher Hitchens. There is youtube video of him that really is quite entertaining.

31

Aaaak. You are correct. My oversight. Hitchens is simply awesome.

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@ninksink

Where’s the beef? Where is your evidence that evil is created by Christianity?

How was WW2 caused by Christianity? How was AIDS created by Christianity? How was Stalinism created by Christianity? How was slavery created by Christianity? How was 9/11 created by Christianity?

Yes, evil exists, but saying that it exists does not create it, except if you want to live in the World of Wishful Thinking.

33

Wow. You, an imperfect human pass judgement down upon Patrick. As for Patrick demanding that you the believer give sufficient evidence of God is spot on. You are the one applying the appealing to “faith” fallacy… “you can’t know God unless you believe…”. And Patrick’s life is the “poorer” for not believing as you do? Holy crap. How do you know that? Patrick cannot be given proof of your god because you can’t prove to him your “religious sense” because it’s all in your mind, yet you judge him to have a poorer life because he can’t know what you claim to know? How in the hell do you know what is in Patrick’s mind as to the quality of his life?

And you won’t discuss religion with people who are willing to listen to you without agreeing with you. Why not? Oh wait. No brownie points for converting an non-Catholic into a Catholic. Never mind that Catholicism is rampant with hijacked Pagan deities and celebrations and feasts (Easter, Xmas, and the lot).

Oh and the Thanksgiving statement. Wow. I am sure the native Americans were praising their gods for allowing these pale faces to desecrate their hunting grounds and wiping them out with the first use of purposeful biological weapons (small pox laced blankets), all the while refusing to listen to those red skins about their sense of the divine.

Since you pass judgement. I will pass judgment upon you. You belong to a death cult. You cannot grasp what a precious and wonderful gift the one life that you have is. You cannot grasp that you are the author of your future. All you can focus on is something you have zero evidence of. Heaven, life after death, eternity kneeling before your model of your god. Just as the faith based initiative [yes RD again, relax] faithful slammed jet liners into the twin towers. They focused on getting to their sense of heaven, not yours, theirs. And neither of you nor Muhammad Atta can prove with even a minute modicum of sufficient evidence that your individual gods (God, Allah) exist.

Eddie, it is your duty to your God to prove to the non-believer that the super-natural exists. But you can’t if all you can lean is your sense of the divine. And just to give you a hint. Super natural means it is not governed by the natural laws of this Universe, therefore, the super natural cannot exist or interact with this Universe because it violates all the laws It set forth in this universe, including the curse of you and your filthy rags of righteousness.

What happens if you get to heaven and before you stands the four armed god Ganesha? Will you run and reject that god? I bet you will. I bet you will turn your back and scamper into the star dust from whence ye came because that god is not the model of your god that you have in your sense and mind. Because that god represents everything your god is not. Or will you bow down to that god? Or what if you do find out that Satan is the god that you worshiped he just tricked you… or worse you find out your god is both evil and good and mets out both randomly without regard as to consequence to believer or non-believer?

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I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7

There’s the beef. Your book. Your holy book. You book of books… well really a collection of books… a collection dependent on the canon used… except for the first canon by Marcionite canon… actually that still kinda exists… it’s sorta like the Thomas Jefferson canon.

35

I have to admit one thing in this discussion. I am having a blast. Y’all are awesome.

And We Got Scared

That is one of my favorite youtube vignettes.

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Thank God you reminded me of my back sliding. :flushed:

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@ninksink

Just as I thought. There is no beef. Just a lot of smoke, the hallucinogenic kind.

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39

ninksink:
Thanks for coming to my aid. It was a very human thing for you to do for me.

btw: Thanksgiving is great over at my house. My wife makes a huge turkey with all the trimming. My whole family is there. We no longer coerce a young child to say grace any more. Some watch America football on the huge flat panel TV. Everybody else are usually sits around on their devices texting and talking at the same time. Have you noticed that in a group of millennials, everybody looks at their device and talks. No eye-to-eye talking anymore.

1 Like