Any fans of myths and legends here? I certainly am, and I view mythical heroes in a Christological sense, as Christ figures who stand against evil, and sometimes sacrifice their lives to defeat their foe, just like what our saviour did on the cross.
My personal favourite is Beowulf, partly because of my English identity, but also because it perfectly portrays these Christian virtues of heroism and sacrifice, and adds much biblical imagery to exemplify it. Grendel, a descendent of Cain, who was (metaphorically of course) āof the evil oneā, represents evil in the form of the seed of the serpent, who would be defeated by Christ. Likewise, Beowulf sacrifices his life (like our saviour), to save his people from a dragon (like our saviour).
Thoughts? Is there a place for myths and legends in Christian life?
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Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
2
They invariably involve redemptive violence, like the earliest myth of Gilgamesh. So they are fine alongside the Bibleā¦
The āmyth of redemptive violenceā is a topic that catches my attention, so Iām biting here! ā¦and interested in you unpacking that, Martin. Iāve been reading your responses for a while, and Iām still not entirely sure when you are using sarcasm, etc. For the sake of future readers and lurkers who will have even less idea than I do what your cryptic responses were supposed to communicate, you should elaborate.
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
4
Mah pleasure Maāam : ) Itās a pond thing. Weāre eccentric. Quirky. Keep āem guessing! On stage I unconsciously modelled myself on John Cleese. And online. A bit of flesh tearing their for sure! As you know, the phrase āmyth of redemptive violenceā is Walter Winkās, who deconstructs sin for me, along with Brian McLaren, Steve Chalke, Rob Bell et al, as abuse of power, one way or another. Even the powerless do that. Abuse what they have. From fractious infants to terrorists. Often in response to abuse. Iām amazed thereās so little. The Bible tries to transcend that while reinforcing it until Jesus kicks it in to touch. But it still hangs on even in NT apocalyptic and Jesusā epistemology and hard sayings (which we never contrast with His wonderful glaring universalist ones) and pollutes Christianity since its state institutionalization. The trajectory of Jesusā kick continues out of the stadium but we fail to follow it, dragged down on the pitch still justifying violence in all its forms beyond genuine self and social defence. Including the form of damnation.
To some extent ā¦ yes. You do excel in that! But I think I hear just enough to gather that I resonate with you in the much needed critique of where Christianity has largely gone - especially since Constantine. Thanks for indulging me.
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Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
6
Any time Mervin. I see the OT taking bigger and bigger loops back, going forward, as it evolves. It is immensely, horrifically, existentially nauseatingly violent. Its God is. The good guys are. Let alone the bad. But gets more and more sophisticated. That pattern intensifies in the NT. God the Killer killed his millions in the OT. Itās billions in the N. While offering a way out if we dare take it: Heās never killed a living soul or required it or ever will.
Beowulf is one of my favorites too, ever since highschool. I can never find the older versions, but a portion stuck in my mind: Sic Grendel theonan Feorhseoc under fenhleothu
*Secaean wynleas wyc. Wiste the georner * Thaet his aldres was ende gegongen, Dogora daegrim.
the ending is āKnew he more surely that his life was ended/ Daysā day-number.ā
The rhythm is mesmerizingāsomewhat like Tolkien (which it influenced a lot).
In undergrad, my teacher noted our culture heritage of the Angles, Saxons and Jutesā warlike tendencies didnāt accept someone who died in the end as being a victorāso the āDream of the Roodā pictures Jesus actively, powerfully grasping the cross to accomplish His goal of dying for others. It was interesting to have a bit of a culture clash with my own ancestors (though most of mine were Dutch, thatās presumably not far flung).
Itās been something Iāve looked at in romans 9 several times. But it does make me appreciate eye for an eye to turning the cheek. I also believe itās tied into culture and a god working on improving a culture without making the divide to the next step so big we could not keep up.
I think about just how much ethics and culture has changed in the last few decades and then centuries and can only imagine how much change it took to
Get from where the ancient Mesopotamians were to where the Jews got to all the way to the life God called is to under Christ.
I enjoyed Beowulf as well. I was introduced to it through childrenās TV programming in Britain, which I think put a lot more airtime toward portraying historical events and myths than what Iāve seen in the US. Beowulf was certainly more violent than what Iād been used to, except for maybe OT stories. I guess Iād missed (or forgotten) the whole ādescendant of Cainā aspect of Grendel.
Iāve enjoyed Greek myths too. Quicksilver, Medusa, the Trojan War and other stories have been favorites, especially those from āA Wonder Bookā by Nathaniel Hawthorne.