I would agree that myth is the wrong word to use. Myth will forever be associated with Zeus, Hera, & Co. as it should be. World view is another alternative.
The primary problem as I see it is that Reality has three aspects, the physical, the rational or mental, and the spiritual, but most people recognize only one or two of these.
Most atheists say that only the physical is real, indicating that the rational and spiritual are not. @T_aquaticus seems to be saying that most atheists recognize the value of the rational and the spiritual, which is fine. I just wish they would change their worldview to allow for the reality of them. Religious people often have a dualist worldview which includes the physical and the spiritual, while philosophical folk include the rational and the physical.
Some folks have the worldview that only the rational is real and some that only the spiritual is real. The best worldview includes the physical, the rational, and the spiritual, which is why I find that the Christian worldview is best, but everyone does have a worldview.
Then it sounds like you are a supporter of secularism which promotes free religious speech.
Agreed. Unfortunately, there is an undercurrent of persecution politics that circulates within some Christian communities. We atheists have all had eye rolling fits listening to invented stories of how the Christian majority are being ruthlessly [/sarcasm] persecuted here in the US. Just imagine how terrible Christians must feel when someone greets them with “Happy Holidays”. Oh, the agony.
Thankfully, it isn’t just atheists that have noticed this problem. Christians are speaking out on it, too.
You’re right. Jesus doesn’t want people to worship Him if they don’t want to. I used the word “Secular” irresponsibly and I’m sorry for the insinuation.
Oh boy, the joys of victimhood. I’m sorry that I ever got caught up in it.
Heheheh. You know what’s even more hysterical? When people get angry at the phrase “X-Mas”; some Christians and Anti-theists think the X is removing the Christ in it. While I get that not many of us as Americans know Greek, we do know how to use Google, for better or for worse.
It’s a very, very common mistake, so don’t worry about it. I often find that Christians who claim to be against secularism are actually for secularism when they learn what secularism really is.
We are all human.
That is one of the more interesting historical notes. It was actually Christian clergy that started using an X borrowed from early Christian symbology:
To be clear the fish symbol stands for Jesus. The Greek letters for fish mean I - Jesus, X Chi- Christ, Theta - God, Y (not sure) probably Son of, Sigma- Savior.
Tradition has it that when the Christians were being persecuted by the Romans, when strangers met, if one drew a curved line with his foot and the other person finished the form of the fish with his, they knew they were brothers in Christ.
The letter chi X was a common symbol for Christ.
All i know is that some of those antitheists are people who have been hurt from religion.And they are very pissed about it.And they have every right to do so. Of course you cannot put a minority of people and claim that all are like this . But ive realized that if i was one of them i would have done the same.
People need to step on the others shoes.If someone( for example) did something personal to you from a particular group youll hate them all,doesnt matter if one of them is only the bad apple.Its human behaviour.
So i understand where the hate some militant/antitheists have .
We are all susceptible to picking some odd hill to plant our flag on and defend to our last breath. As the saying goes, play dumb games, win dumb prizes.
I suspect that a lot of tension would go away if we simply tried to see the humanity in each other, as you state. I think we would all do better if we start with the assumptions that people honestly believe what they say they believe, want to be right just as much as we do, and are flawed in the same ways we are. Of course, people can still prove that those assumptions are wrong, but we should at least start there.
Id have to disagree sadly. I agree on the part that we need to be more compassionate etc etc but that’s just not gonna happen . Ever. It’s like having 2 superpowers and saying “ohh look yeah we can be friends” while deep inside both know they’ll never be. It just won’t happen.
It’s human character. We can become so bad and cruel at times that even the devil himself I guess would be scared of us. You’ll never know what beast you are hiding inside of you until someone or something awakes it.
Usually the good times between people never last. You are born in this world alone and you’ll die alone. Sorry for getting a little philosophical here:wink:
Why are you so negative? Yes, human nature can be and is flawed, but that is why Jesus came, to save us from ourselves. True, some people do not want to be saved from themselves, but that does not mean that everyone is basically nasty. Afterall Putin is a KGB Stalinist. What can we expect?
Not negative . Can people do good ? Yes they can. Can people become compassionate? Yes they can. I’m just not sugarcoating. That compassion and goodness usually goes away in times in someone’s life,and I’m just stating that there can even be a turnover in ones character completely for all sorts of reasons.
Yeah it would seem like Jesus was the perfect example from what the Bible says
The perfect example of human goodness. Just like Buddha and some other 300 prophets or so correct?
Jesus wasn’t morally absolute from the others. The only thing that separates him from others prophets and “enlighters” is that he was raised . from the death. Nothing more nothing less.
I do not know from where your theology comes, but it is dead wrong. Jesus is very different from the other prophets and enlighteners, because He has the power to save us from ourselves, which is the Holy Spirit. Jesus is God. He was raised from the dead to prove that He is God.
Jesus is Love. The others might be loving, but they did not do what Jesus did, live so we might know how to live, and die so we might live. You must repent, trust in Gid, and be born again of the Holy Spirit.
Ohhh save the preaching to me please. If you haven’t realized yet that relationship works only one way and trust me it ain’t to your(or anyone’s believer)favour.
Doubt it
Really? And my theology is wrong? I’ll just let other users here correct you on this one.
Brother, we live in very difficult times. I can understand your pessimism. Yes, many people have been hurt by theists and atheists. Only God can make things right, and I believe God will., Pray for love to do what is right in these trying times.
The OP brought out an apocalyptic view of where value rootlessness might lead, others have pointed to healthy non-theism. Stalin and Mao showed us how rootless non-theist narratives can devalue humans and result in tens of millions of deaths, but humans have found ways to devalue and slaughter other humans throughout history, with or without a narrative. Humans are broken.
Regarding concrete examples today, Cancel Culture certainly concerns me, and should concern us all, when over 50% of college students no longer express their honest opinions in a classroom. I consider Cancel Culture the most intolerant, hateful, and destructive force I have seen in America, completely antithetical to freedom of expression.
I worry about the Tech/Government cooperation in censoring of “unacceptable” views. We should be defending speech we don’t like. How many unassailable truths over the past few years have turned out to be lies? As long as Julian Assange is in jail and Eric Snowden in exile, we are all at risk if we expose what’s really going on.
The canceling of people by financial institutions is clearly a great evil, and it has begun. Some people now cannot buy or sell unless they have the mark of the … politically correct views.
I think some of the above arises partly because our culture has departed from the value of every individual, which used to be rooted in “equal before God.” This is related to the concern raised by @Combine_Advisor. As soon as some people become lesser humans in the eyes of the self-styled superior humans, that’s the slippery slope. There is a correlation in the above with what I consider to be some of the rootlessness of non-theism, but it is fervent fundamentalism of any narrative that does the most damage, whether theist or non-theist. There are anti-theists out there also, but I don’t think the above issues are driven by them.
