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“This” refers to the anti-theist of new atheist rhetoric towards well Christians in this case.
As long as we aren’t what they say we are, it won’t stand up to meeting people.
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It’s so easy to get caught up in the online drama, whatever one you’re involved in. Foolishly been there and regretted it. Been there again. Regretted it again.
It’s easy to feel cornered, when we don’t leave our particular corner. Leave the atheist groups. Just leave them.
Here are two places to go to take a breath, when you need it: https://iamculturecare.com/ and Ekstasis | Christian Literary Journal - Ekstasis Magazine. I don’t know if art and literature speak to you, but I couldn’t function without them. In either of these places, you can take a small bite of something good for your soul, savor it and let your peace return.
Leave the atheists in their forum to themselves. Take care of your soul.
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While I don’t think I’ll leave the company of atheist groups (as in people who simply don’t believe in any god), you are correct that it would be best if I just let the antitheists go about their way. Not only am I giving this (fringe) group of people too much power, I’m also starting to ignore my own issues and focus on the splinters in other peoples’ eyes, which I guarantee is going to make things even worse. How can I even call myself Christian if I can’t see the good in literally everyone? Truth is that I can’t.
Thanks for this, and Pax Christi.
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Oh I thought you were an anti-theist here on a lark to stir things up by passing on all the biases you’re hearing or thinking about yourself. Sorry if I read you wrong. On the other hand if you’re just taking in new perspectives and processing those best of luck to you. I don’t believe God is as described by the Christian tradition but I do think God belief is based on something real, positive and important.
The way I think about it now God belief is more about a disposition toward the world that colors your entire experience. Everyone has a disposition toward the world even if that is strict materialism which denies the existence of anything greater than one’s own ego. Other dispositions exist between those two poles. Hope you have one that gives your life meaning and purpose.
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This passage reveals a commonly held lie, which is that religion is based on myth. That myth is a lie, because Christianity is not based on mythical word or mythos, but on Logos or rational Word. This is very clear because John 1:1 says: “In the Beginning was the Word/Logos, and the Word/Logos as with God and the Word/Logos WAS GOD.”
Christianity is not true because people believe it or because it is old. It is true because it is true. No doubt this is hard to believe for people who have been taught that science has all the answers, but it does not, just some of the answers.
Science must learn to live with Christianity and philosophy as we seek to solve humanity problems together. Christians must learn to live with science also.
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That’s quite alright! I like to try to get into people’s heads, so I’m attempting to think as someone possessed by this mentality.
While I believe that the human experience gets better with a god, millions of people live fulfilling and saintly lives without such belief. In fact, I believe this so wholeheartedly that if I were the only Christian in a neighborhood or entire nation of non-religious or atheists, I wouldn’t feel threatened. I mean, the facts that you’re agnostic and on this forum should be enough for the anti-atheist to change his tune and recognize humanity in everyone, admitting that like you say, everyone has a disposition that gives life meaning. Even if there is no meaning to anything in a cosmic sense, we certainly don’t believe it for a second; we still get up every morning and talk with friends or Mr. Rando Anonymous online!
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I absolutely agree that Christianity isn’t an old superstition. But when I use the word myth, I mean a narrative that people live by; in that sense, both Christianity and atheism are myths, as are Liberalism and Conservatism.
Am I using the word incorrectly?
It is certainly not the way I use the word. I use the word myths to refer to stories from an oral tradition passed down from a time before the specialization of human activities into things like science, history, philosophy, law, religion, and entertainment. They have a recognizable character to them because of a mix of the fantastic with hints of profound meaning. For example, consider the names of those two trees in the Garden… trees named for abstractions? Where in science, history, or even fantasy do you find things like that? Is it talking about events or about those abstractions?
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Oh, maybe myth isn’t the right word I should be using. What do you suggest, just stick with narrative?
I’m not at all sure what you mean by “with a god” but I never assume any two people mean exactly the same thing by God or gods. In different cultures there have been other conceptions than the Christian idea. Even within Christianity I’m sure the meaning evolves as believers mature to say nothing of between denominations. So without knowing what you mean it is hard to really have a conversation about it. I don’t actually think of God as a being apart at all but I do think what gives rise to and supports God belief is real and can be important for people. It isn’t just in terms of thoughts about death and that plays no role in why I think it is important though it may well be for others. But I do think human consciousness is complex and configurable in more than one way, as demonstrated by the variety of cultures we find (even as many disappear into one of the larger ones).
But sure it is possible to have rewarding lives but in my experience I’m not confident that is a common experience, either within or without organized religion. You’d have to think what you could get from feeling that link, with or without an afterlife plan, a omni-powerful ally or any gratuitous answer to where we came from or where going. I find the stripped down, no-frills model entirely satisfactory and I like my life. Of course if you could only imagine such a link was a fiction or delusion it couldn’t possibly do you any good. So you’d need some basis for believing something more can exist at all. But I’m not thinking of burning bushes or visions of the saints. I don’t think what it is has much to say though I do think it can approve or disapprove of choices, and inspire and counsel as well any analyst behind the couch taking notes without doing more than nodding and so on. I wouldn’t say it is necessary but I do recognize the link which was established in me before my analytic brain was up to the task of giving it a proper grounding has added value for me, no other perks required.xx
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I am an atheist. I and the vast majority of atheists I know fully support religious freedoms. In fact, we support the idea of a secular government in order to protect those very freedoms.
Do you see antitheists as a threat simply because they disagree with you?
I think it is important to acknowledge the difference between governance and disagreement. We can disagree with one another while also supporting a government that gives us the freedom to disagree (or agree, for that matter).
What if we define the progress of the human race by how we treat the least fortunate among us? That’s certainly how I judge the progress of our species, by ever increasing amounts of equality, fairness, empathy, and compassion.
We atheists are also well aware of the Naturalistic fallacy. Just because something is natural does not automatically make it morally good.
Many of us atheists have found very deep and meaningful purpose in our lives, and we are not ruthless eugenicists looking to shape the human population.
I get the feeling that you simply don’t understand us, which is fine. It is often difficult to imagine how one could view the world differently than you, especially when there are fundamental differences in how you approach the world.
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My first (and pretty much only) reaction is to notice ‘worried’ in the title and once more in your OP, plus ‘fear’ used three times, and then to recall that the most frequent mandate in the Bible is “Do not be afraid” or one of its several variations – “Fear not!”, “Be anxious for nothing”, “Fret not”, and the like. Appropriate concern about something is… appropriate, but I cannot identify with your issue (nor do I feel any ‘threat’, another word you used three times).
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I totally agree. All of the atheists I have known are completely normal people who advocate for a secular government, which excludes no one. I should have titled this rant “My Worries Regarding an Antitheistic Future”, ehich is likely never going to happen anyway.
We can absolutely disagree with one another and support our rights to think differently. I have had conversations with nonreligious people and felt just fine. What I fear, as is the case with religious extremists, is that there are a significant number of antireligious iconoclasts that wish to abolish disagreement (which is most likely a loosely-connected gaggle of the angry terminally online who are too busy getting high off the fumes of burning strawmen to do any real damage), and their tactics and the way in which they lambast remind me of groups of/individual people that had acted on their burning hatred.
You’re right. The eugenics insinuation was wholly unwarranted and downright stupid.
I completely agree, and unwittingly inflated the number of radicals in your group as they do to the number in my own. I shouldn’t have done that. I think we can both agree there are some real nut jobs that probably think and say similar things, but I’m definitely blowing things WAY out of proportion.
The more I reread this, the sillier it gets. If it were 2008 or something I guess it would sound less paranoid, but yikes. I shouldn’t be giving all 5 of these people this much power. I’m genuinely sorry i ever wrote this.
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One reason one might speak a lot about worries, fears, and threats is because you are surrounded by a culture that speaks of them often. Then regardless of whether @Dale or @Combine_Advisor feel such things one might see the need to respond to this talk of them.
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But now that you’ve written it you’ve been able to think it over and get some feedback – sometimes it can help to get something out in the open and hear from a wider variety of voices – it can be easy to blow things out of proportion in your own mind, especially if you like to spend a lot of time pondering ideas in order to try and make sense of them. I’ve received some reality checks from this forum before and am grateful for it.
Despite our sometimes overblown reactions, there’s no doubt that American society is changing rapidly in terms of its religious landscape, and that is something Christians need to be aware of. It’s good to think and talk about what these changes might mean for us now and in the future, and about the way we “do church” and live our lives. I don’t think we should be terrified, but sticking our heads in the sand helps no one.
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Quote of my day! That’s awesome!
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Don’t be. You’re among friends. You nakedly shared your fears and took the feedback. You have nothing to be ashamed of. And I am crippled with shame. We walk together and hold each other up where we can. Even the innocent tares who brush up against us… and bring out not exactly the best in me.
So I’m grateful that you wrote this.
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Thanks man!
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You’re welcome mate.
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