Mutual dreams and the supernatural

[Reggie_O_Donoghue (RiderOnTheClouds)]

Is there a scientific explanation for why two different people can receive a near identical dream?

I ask this because of an experience shared by two members of my family that I believe may believe to be the result of supernatural activity.

Whilst on holiday in Wales my Grandmother and Cousin both experienced the same dream of an evil woman attempting to lure them into danger. As an atheist I mostly just ignored this story out of cognitive dissonance, but now, as I accept the supernatural as a reality, I now take it more seriously, and see parallels with the Lilitu demon in Babylonian and Jewish mythology, as a nighttime demon which seduces people in their sleep. Sure, this seduction was non-sexual, but I still see it as a parallel or variant.

Has anyone got a scientific explanation for this?

[mitchellmckain (Scientist and Christian)]

Science only deals with things that can be measured in controlled conditions in a repeatable manner. Otherwise the most you have are rare events that can be put down to statistical anomalies which say absolutely nothing about what governs things in the natural world.

In other words, what you see as result of supernatural activity others are free to see as coincidence only.

[jpm (Phil McCurdy)]

Dreams can be amazingly common based on our shared anxieties and experiences. For example, I have had recurrent dreams of forgetting I had signed up for a college class, and was too late to drop it. I arrive to class to take a test and know nothing on the test.
I have had variations of this dream for decades, and know from talking with others in competitive areas (mine was pre-med) that it is a common dream. Most doctors I know have had the same dream.

It is interesting that I have difficulty reading the test or whatever text is in my dream. I read once that the part of the brain used in reading is inactive during sleep, so that makes sense.

[mitchellmckain (Scientist and Christian)]

@jpm

It is interesting that I have difficulty reading the test or whatever text is in my dream. I read once that the part of the brain used in reading is inactive during sleep, so that makes sense.

That came up in an episode of “Evil” a tv show where a psychologist helps a priest investigate miracles and possessions. The psychologist uses it to determine whether what she is experiencing is real or she is dreaming. I am less likely to conclude that something isn’t real just because I am dreaming.

[jpm (Phil McCurdy)]

Ha! I think that is the only episode I’ve seen! No wonder false science gets spread so easily, though that may be a true factoid, as I get frustrated in dreams when I can’t read the test questions and make sense of it.

[Randy]

Interesting. Thanks for this. If it helps, incubus and succubus (Lilith/Lilitu, etc) may be in part from hypnagogic hallucinations–I’ve talked with a specialist on sleep about them. They’re pretty common, frightening, and occur between sleep and wakening, especially with fatigue or sleep apnea (not necessarily with apnea). The frightening part is thought to be related to REM related or other sleep paralysis, which comes on commonly–you can’t move, but are very aware. A vision of a predatory or frightening woman is common. I’ll give you some references later, if you like. Thanks!

[Randy]

@jpm

Dreams can be amazingly common based on our shared anxieties and experiences. For example, I have had recurrent dreams of forgetting I had signed up for a college class, and was too late to drop it. I arrive to class to take a test and know nothing on the test.
I have had variations of this dream for decades, and know from talking with others in competitive areas (mine was pre-med) that it is a common dream. Most doctors I know have had the same dream.

Me too… I have had this, and have met others with it

[MountainMermaid]

Good point about common dream themes. I’m open to the possibility of shared dreams due, in part, to personal experience. Also, Biblically speaking, it is said that God will give us dreams & visions (Joel 2:28). If God can give a person a dream, I would assume God could give the same dream or message to multiple people. I don’t know if other spirits influence our dreams or not. However, we do know that certain themes are common amongst people, & as you suggest, this is likely due in large part to shared feelings or experiences. I don’t think that every dream is from God, but I do believe that some are.

For me, ways in which I would attempt to differentiate between ordinary theme sharing & actual dream sharing include the following:

1. Are these themes common amongst people in general? What about within my culture or community? Do these individuals commonly dream of these things? Are the themes odd?

2. Has any recent event known to the dreamers possibly triggered the symbolism in said dream? Were the dreamers recently discussing a topic that might have triggered the shared dream?

3. Are the dreamers sharing only large theme elements in common or are they sharing details in common? Are the details unusual? How many details are they sharing?

4. Did the dream turn out to appear prophetic? Did it appear to reveal a hidden truth or future event?

5. Did the dreams occur at the same time? How close together did the dreams occur?

Your point about the Broca & Wernicke’s areas being suppressed during sleep makes sense! I can see how that might lead our brains to interpret the experience as struggling during a test. Interesting insight!

I have read the same regarding the part of the brain that handles reading. However, I find that I can (at times, at least) read in my sleep. I don’t know that I’ve read anything of great length, but I have read- or so I recall. However, it seems that I’ve also seen distorted writing in my sleep.

I also experience lucid dreaming, which indicates that parts of my brain which should be at rest during sleep are not always subdued. Unfortunately, I also have panic attacks in my sleep complete with high heart rate and blood pressure. It seems my brain & body aren’t experiencing normal rest states.

I have also loved reading & writing since I was a child. I tend to be more skilled at Creative Composition & English than in many other areas. Perhaps, the parts of my brain which interpret speech are more active or capable in a dream state, as well.

Your point still stands, as the areas of the brain involved in reading might normally be suppressed during dreams. I’m just sharing the novelty of my own experience. Apparently, the suppression of these areas isn’t universal for all folks all of the time. Yet, I don’t think I’m immune to it. I do recall dreams of struggling in class, as well. I still have these dreams in spite of being a college graduate who is no longer a student. In fact, I had one last night.

[Klax (The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)]

The clue is in two suggestible close family members of Celtic heritage on holiday together in a Celtic hinterland sharing campfire stories, priming each other. No demons necessary. Grandparents and grandchildren both hate the same people.

[jpm (Phil McCurdy)]

Welcome to the forum! Good to have your input! Dreams seem to come in response to stress and anxiety as well. I dreamt last might that i was in a conference being given instructions and a final test before graduation, and also noted that I had forgotten to dress before the meeting and had to run across the front and find a room to dress in.

[beaglelady]

@Randy

Me too… I have had this, and have met others with it

Same here. Just the other night I had a dream about having to get ready for high school. When the weather turns in the Fall, it usually triggers school phobia dreams for me.

[MountainMermaid]

Thanks for the welcome! I didn’t realize how old this thread was. Oops. But I love the comic you shared! lol. I wish all of our dreams could be pleasant & peaceful; unfortunately, my dreams also reflect my anxiety.

[Kendel]

And me, like you and @jpm .
All sorts of dreams that I failed to do something I was committed to do, whether I was aware of the commitment or not. Types.

Also for years, when I was teaching, I would have nightmares in August about not being prepared to teach my classes.

And then for years after I left teaching I would start having nightmares in August about forgetting to show up to class, or being called in to sub, etc.

The dreams I really remember for any waking length of time are often related to the things that stress me, even if I can supress the feeling of stress throughout the day.

[Terry_Sampson]

• Two different humans sharing the same, or very similar dreams, sound a bit like “quantum entanglement” to me, but possibly/probably because I’m not well-versed on the subject of “quantam entanglement”.

[Kendel]

When my girls watch “Supergirl” we’ve noticed that script writers have no idea what quantum means, and use it as an adjective to make anything sound important or sciencey. Quantum oatmeal. Quantum toothbrush. Quantum break-up.

“Entanglement” in “Supergirl” usually refers to the relationships of the mail characters to each other, undercover aliens or just the really bad guy who also happens to be an object of lust.

My husband recently declared the show inane and has (Praise the Lord!) banned it from our tv.

In brief, Terry, I think you might have been sneaking a view of some not so “marvel-ous” or is that rather, not so “capitol” (as in DC) versions of comic books.

[Kendel]

@Klax

Grandparents and grandchildren both hate the same people.

There may be something to this…

[Terry_Sampson]

@Kendel

In brief, Terry, I think you might have been sneaking a view of some not so “marvel-ous” or is that rather, not so “capitol” (as in DC) versions of comic books.

My saying “sounds like” merely means that I’ve “heard”–or rather, “seen” the term bandied about by others in this forum and elsewhere, and neither understand it nor can believe what I do not understand. Just saying: "two different humans hsaring the same, or very similar dreams, “sound a bit like 'quantum entanglement to me”. In other words, I haven’t a clue what I’m talking about and have difficulty believing that those who use the term more frequently than I do, either.

• “Sane man”, your husband, I believe.

[SkovandOfMitaze (Mi)]

I also don’t know what it is. I think maybe 2-3 people may have a decent grasp on it as far as available data on it in these groups.

I made a post on it months ago. But I already forgot what paragraph worth of info I did memorize on it at that time. I think it was in one of the “Recovering evangelicals” podcasts episodes and the person speaking on it did know about it and was mentioning g some potential ideas around brothers and sisters sharing a similar emotional reaction.

Something like a sister was a thousand miles away eating some kind of cake and was nervous about some guy that potentially stalking her and her sister called her saying she had a bad feeling about her and was craving desert or something like that. Then they got into particles affecting each other and that whole one particle in two places test and ect… near stuff but I’m ok with just knowing that something mystifying to me exists and scientists are looking into it. In a decade I’ll have a spark notes on it lol.

[Kendel]

@Terry_Sampson

“Sane man”, your husband, I believe.

My wish for every married person is that they have a spouse as wonderful as mine. [They can’t have mine, but I wish for them that their spouse appears in their eyes as wonderful as Scott does in mine.]

[Terry_Sampson]

Called upon by a niece “to officiate” at her wedding, I asked if I could use the word “God”, and she said: “Sure, they’re all the same” reflecting her worldview, and so I decided, I wouldn’t. So, instead, my introductory words to the motley crowd of invited families and friends went, in part, like this: “A strong marriage requires two actions: the first is finding ‘the best person’ and the second is ‘being the best person’. We’re here at X and Y’s invitation, because they believe and say they have found in each other 'the best person” and now intend–in our presence–to commit themselves to ‘being each other’s best person’.