Musings from a book store

Faith & Science Conversation
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I got a bit of an odd set of questions tonight. On a recent trip to a Barnes and Nobles, a brief browsing of books brought up a couple of questions I was wondering if you guys could analyze.

First of all, let me say that the science section here was immaculate. I walked out of there with a thick Smithsonian book on the Universe. Unfortunately, the exoplanet section was lacking. Regardless, a book bursting with information on God’s amazing Creation. I was given a glance at a couple of novels that my amazing physics teacher recommended, including Cosmos by Carl Sagan and A Brief History of Time by Hawkings. However, I have a bit of a queasiness considering purchasing these novels, as I remember reading an article from a Christian site (I think from Reasons to Believe or Biologos) that said that, in his book Cosmos, Carl asserts that there is nothing but the cosmos; no God. Now, I’m still working some kinks out of my faith but am also trying to expand my horizons with science. My first question then is:

  • Those that have read Cosmos, would you recommend it for a beginner Evolutionary Creationist like myself?
  • Similar to a question I read on another thread, with what level of caution should I approach books written by militant atheists, such as deGrasse Tyson?

Second question comes from a glance toward the religion section of the store. Quick side note, I was a bit concerned about the amount of Satanic-adjacent literature there, including a book on the history of witchcraft and the occult (which I had originally thought was J.K. Rowling’s “A History of Magic,” based on her book series Harry Potter). Speaking of interesting book placing, right next to the science section was the ghost/conspiracy discount section on a small table, which I thought was pretty funny. Anyway, I found the section on religion and was hoping to find The Language of God, to which I was disappointed to find no luck. Alternatively, I did find a bit of an odd and surreal sight:

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On this one shelf, I came across the Christian apologetics literature, the deconstructing faith literature, and the agnostic/atheist literature. It felt like I was coming face-to-face with my history of emotions. I didn’t know what to think seeing books like “The God Delusion” so close, an object that had previously given me much anxiety now within reach. Unfortunately, to my dismay, I couldn’t find any thought-provoking Christian books (I did find “Return of the God Hypothesis,” “God: The Science and The Evidence,” “Why I Am Not An Atheist,” and “The Case for God” by Karen Armstrong, which seemed like good reads but I held back my cash for now). This sparked a few questions in myself:

  • What are some good Evolutionary Creationist books? One of the earliest Biologos articles I read (https://biologos.org/personal-stories/what-happened-when-i-wanted-to-give-up-on-god) told the story of an amateur astronomer who bought as many books on Christian views of creation, including the Language of God. Unfortunately, a list wasn’t provided so I could only guess what they had bought.

  • How should I feel about coming face to face with these powerful atheist books? I wanted to be fearful but I also know that I was previously told that the real discussions lies with these books. Should I shun myself from these books or maybe one day give them a try? Would doing so be a mistake for a young Christian?

I don’t want to seem like I’m too afraid of atheists, or that I don’t even want to try and consider their views. However, I’m still shaky in my faith and have issues with understanding authority on subjects and who I can trust with saying what (especially in literature meant to education on a wide range of subjects). Even considering the contents of the books makes me a little queasy, especially since there didn’t seem to be any Evolutionary Creationist literature to give fair support for the Christian side of the debate. Maybe I’m holding atheists in too high regard, but I feel like this little encounter of mine started to psychology back myself into a corner regarding all the evidence that could get thrown around. If anyone also has any tips for such, meaning engaging with good books even if they disagree with you, please let me know.

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I guess the thing I’m getting at is that it felt weird being in this establishment that juggled such a variety of subjects without conflict: Christianity, Islam, and Agnosticism all on the same shelf; zodiac signs and spirit literature next to the science and history section; etc. I really didn’t know what to think. This store seems like the model citizen of embracing the totality of knowledge humanity had accumulated without any conflict, a sort of pluralistic utopia.

I also came across an intriguing novel by Marcy Roach: Six Feet Over. According to a few internet searches, it seems that in the book she concludes that science mostly concludes the consciousness dies after death but some phenomena (I.e. Near Desth Experiences) remain unexplained. I’m sure that religious explanations are not really covered but,

  • how should I react to this information?
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Good thing about a bookstore is that you can order books for later receipt. Get a book and invite Biologos members to suggest a book to order that ideally gives you a paired reading list*: if you read a strong atheist or skeptical work, pair it with a serious, thoughtful response from a different perspective. That way you’re not just absorbing arguments—you’re actually learning how to evaluate them.

And as Kendel can tell you, libraries often have both kinds of books to read and take notes from.

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Alright. Like “The God Delusion” and the other books in the bottom of that shelf in the picture seem to be the biggest names in atheist literature, can anyone name their equally powerful Christian counterparts (especially well-versed and scientifically sound rebuttals).

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The Dawkins Delusion?: Atheist Fundamentalism and the Denial of the Divine Hardcover – May 25, 2007

  • World-renowned scientist Richard Dawkins writes in The God Delusion: “If this book works as I intend, religious readers who open it will be atheists when they put it down.” The volume has received wide coverage, fueled much passionate debate and caused not a little confusion. Alister McGrath, along with his wife Joanna, are ideal to evaluate Dawkins’s ideas. Once an atheist himself, he gained a doctorate in molecular biophysics before going on to become a leading Christian theologian. He wonders how two people, who have reflected at length on substantially the same world, could possibly have come to such different conclusions about God. McGrath subjects Dawkins’s critique of faith to rigorous scrutiny. His exhilarating, meticulously argued response deals with questions such as Is faith intellectual nonsense? Are science and religion locked in a battle to the death? Can the roots of Christianity be explained away scientifically? Is Christianity simply a force for evil? This book will be warmly received by those looking for a reliable assessment of The God Delusion and the many questions it raises–including, above all, the relevance of faith and the quest for meaning.
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Christianbook

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Thank you for the read!

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Try Finding Darwin’s god by Ken Miller.

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I (mostly) adore Barnes and Noble.
However, their religion and philosophy sections are really pretty bad. They focus on what is popular, because they know that that’s what will sell. What you see when you look at those sections is what most current buyers of religion and philosophy are buying. Which I find pretty sad.

Most of the Christian religion section is vapid, self-serving schlock and Bibles with fancy covers. And Christian romance and vengance politics novels. :nauseated_face:

Big libraries, even their catalogs, are great. You can search the library catalog of a place like Calvin University in Michigan and see what they have. A number of BL folks are connected with Calvin.

Genre first:
Novels are works of fiction. Cosmos and A Brief History of Time are not. They are both non-fiction books about science written for popular audiences.

I have read part of Cosmos probably only the first chapter. That chapter is a combination of memoir and philosophical statement about science and the universe. Sagan was a beautiful writer, and demonstrated (in the part of the book that I read) great value for life – much greater than many of my fellow Christians.

Sagan was clear about his atheism. I don’t think he was a missionary for it, he was simply clear that he never saw evidence for God or any other reason to believe in God.

Eventually, I think you will face the same challenge, reading most scientists’ works, particularly for the popular press. They are often clear about their stance toward belief in God/god or not, because that is often important to their readers in ways that it isn’t a consideration in a technical scientific work written for scientists.

I think you are wise to recognize where you are in your spiritual development.

“The Debate” is actually rarely the focus of any author, unless that’s the area she is writing about. Lift your head, and scan Barnes and Noble. That’s a LOT of books and authors. If, for example, Sagan wrote about his views on naturalism and philosophy, it’s to explain his thinking, or to clarify something, not necessarily to engage in a debate with anyone. If he were debating, it’s reasonable to consider whom or what he felt he was debating against, and why he even felt a need to involve himself in “The Debate.” It’s likely that someone like Sagan was ambivalent to Christianity per se, and concerned about what happens when people start combining religious belief into scientific study.

What is “The Christian Side?” If you look around here, there are many different ways that Christians address the questions of science in relation to their faith. YEC is a Christian side. ID. EC. TC. Mysticism. And more. Plus the views of those of us who reject any label, because we find all of them deficient, or we are not interested in figuring out how to pigeonhole ourselves for someone else’s comfort; we accept that we live with science all around us, and we’re Christians, too.

It’s ok to leave “The Debate” and focus on the life of a Christian. Jesus gave us a lot of things to do, and none of them has to do with “The Debate.”

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One thing to keep in mind, from a practical viewpoint, is that bookstores are in the business of selling books to make a fair profit, so they’re only going to be offering books they think will sell the most copies. This doesn’t necessarily mean these books have the most authority – it just means the authors and their publishers know how to stir up enough interest to entice people to buy books they’ve heard of.

As for books that present strong Christian counterpoints to atheist arguments, I’m with @Terry_Sampson about Alister McGrath. (I haven’t read anything by his wife Joanna, so can’t comment on her contributions).

I don’t think you should be afraid of reading books and asking questions. Every piece of writing, whether fiction or non-fiction, is shaped and informed by the personal belief system of the author. It’s tempting for authors to believe that they themselves, of all the authors who have ever lived, have somehow managed to stumble on pure, objective truth untainted by human preoccupations with “the big questions.” But we’re all human. And no human brain can process vast amounts of data without making starting assumptions and without building internal filters to sort all the data. This is true of atheists as well as people who hold various religious and spiritual beliefs. Every book in a bookstore or library can only share a small bit of a much bigger picture. And thank goodness for that, or our heads might explode!

In my experience, every book written from an honest perspective (which is to say the author hasn’t intentionally set out to deceive or defraud you as they laugh all the way to the bank) has within its pages a mix of information. Some of the information will give you an “aha” feeling of recognition and some of it will make you frown and wonder and ask more questions. But either way, you’ve learned something, and that’s the useful part about reading and researching. As long as you’re open to the process of changing your own mind, and not being afraid that you’ll look foolish or weak if you let in new perspectives, then all those books become stepping stones on your journey.

And don’t forget that even authors who’ve written so-called “authoritative” texts can change their own thinking completely as time goes on. It’s okay to change your mind!

As for the books themselves (and this is something you can’t do if you borrow books from the library!), I write notes in the margins and highlight certain sections that jump out at me (either because I really like them or I really don’t). This helps me keep track of my own thinking process as I read. I honestly can’t learn much of anything unless I can physically write notes on paper, so I end up printing a lot of articles I find online. My office space is swamped with paper, but that’s how I learn best. This wouldn’t work for everyone, though, so you have to find the study method that works best for you.

Read widely, but don’t forget that written words can only take you so far. You can learn a lot about yourself and God just by taking a walk on a forest trail or having coffee with a friend.

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Alrighty. I thought I was getting something mixed up but I guess I just superimposed “novel” for book.

Okay, thank you for that. I never really thought of “The Debate” as just something in my own head. Perhaps a break is something I really need. Thank you for the help!

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I read it and decided it belonged in the comedy section of my shelves. What Dawkins really demonstrates in that book is that he should stick to subjects where he has a clue what he is talking about.

Amen!

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So what? It’s a good intellectual practice to read charitably, no matter what the religious or non-religious affiliation of the author. You can read to become informed, it doesn’t mean you have to be persuaded to adopt every belief of the author.

As for resources:

You might like Friend of Science, Friend of Faith by Gregg @davidson or The Works of His Hands: A Scientist’s Journey from Atheism to Faith by @Sy_Garte.

@DarrelFalk, past president of BioLogos and author of Coming to Peace with Science has a Substack you might benefit from: https://darrelfalk.substack.com/

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Allister McGrath is a great source for the kind of book @BuffaloMax17 is looking for. I especially appreciate his narrative approach to apologetics, which he talks about in this podcast with Jim Stump.

https://biologos.org/podcast-episodes/alister-mcgrath-journey-of-science-story-of-faith

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The suggestions from others seem good to me. You might also try Denis Alexander’s “Creation or Evolution, Do we have to choose?” I see nothing negative in saying, “God set up the mechanism and out came all these wonderful living beings!” But you may become aware that atheistic evolutionists almost never take consciousness, mind and spirit into account. Since these are crucial to our human nature, this is the missing “elephant in the living room”. Such things are just not part of their scientific picture. If the universe has been set up to generate consciousness-bearing creatures (such as us) it seems reasonable that the Creator shares this with us too.

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I empathize with your struggle. But you are forgetting that the basis of your belief in God and his plan of salvation through Christ is based on your experience of God’s word as the truth about God from God. And that experience is a self-evident one. That’s all the atheists have. The fact that a person already assumes atheism when doing science doesn’t make his atheism scientific, any more than the Theism of the vast majority of scientists made their Theism scientific. I’d be happy to be of more help if you write to me: roy.a.clouser@gmail.com

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