More reasons to believe Genesis 1-11 is (embellished) real history


(RiderOnTheClouds) #1

Before I gave biblical, logistic reasons to believe Genesis 1-11 has a historical core. Now I give scientific and historical evidence for real history being behind Genesis 1-11.

Genesis 6:1-4 claims the sons of the gods took as wives whomever they choose, since they married whoever they wanted, it sounds like it could be alluding to polygamy by semi-divine kings from the line of Cain (Lamech?). Jordan Peterson (and others) have pointed out that polygamous societies tend to be more violent, which may explain why God went on to flood the earth for being filled with violence (Genesis 6:11). I don’t claim that the Biblical author knew about the psychological link, but the events seem to allude to such a link happening, which suggests there is a historical core to the narrative.

  1. I’ll let John Walton explain this better than me. The Tower of Babel story basically shows some insight into how developed societies began to appear in the real world:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/26422132?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents


(Mitchell W McKain) #2

UH UH! No way am I going to let you get away with this. There is NOTHING in that passage which points to polygamy!!! Are your suggesting that otherwise it should have said “the sons of god took a wife from the daughters of men?” It is not grammatically correct and with the same slipshod argument this alteration would be equated with them all sharing a single woman. The most you can say is that polygamy is not excluded. BUT if there was ANY intention of criticizing a practice of poligamy here you would expect this to be spelled out quite clearly.

Furthermore the narrative both before the flood and after with the tower of Babel points to the flood being God’s answer to a very different problem. The repeated phrase was “evil continually.” The evil explicitly mentioned before this is murder. But I have no problem with extending this to include all the usual suspects you see from evil people all the time where they abuse other and take what they want from them. But what the tower of Babel story particularly points to as God’s objection is the attempt to keep everyone under the thumbs of a single civilization. And the words “and this is only the beginning of what they will do” suggests that this is a pattern which God has seen before. Together these tell a story of a civilization before the flood dominated by murder and abuse with no freedom to escape, precisely the sort of situation where God might see wiping the slate clean as the only hope.

I am certainly not going to let you write in some particular obscure thing you personally don’t like, even when there is very little evidence that these do any great harm. Especially when there is no evidence to support your idea in the rest of the Bible. None of this means that I personally like polygamy in the slightest – I don’t. But I am an even greater believer in not pushing my preferences on other people.


(RiderOnTheClouds) #3

I never said it was criticising polygamy as an instittution, I only said the polygamy led to violence. Why mention that the sons of the gods took as wives ‘whomever they chose’, such sounds like something more than usual relationshps.


(RiderOnTheClouds) #4

The point I was making with the tower of Babel was ‘why’ they did it.


(Matthew Pevarnik) #5

I don’t think we should read polygymy there as well just a few Chapters later the twelve tribes of Israel arise out of a polygamous scenario with God opening wombs left and right.


(RiderOnTheClouds) #6

Did you not read what I said? The passage does not condemn polygamy itself. But polygamy is linked to violence in real life


(RiderOnTheClouds) #7

Even if I am wrong about the Sons of God being polygamous and violent, Lamech most certainly was.


(RiderOnTheClouds) #8

Compare:

17 Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch; and he built a city, and named it Enoch after his son Enoch. 18 To Enoch was born Irad; and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael the father of Methushael, and Methushael the father of Lamech. 19 Lamech took two wives; the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah. 20 Adah bore Jabal; he was the ancestor of those who live in tents and have livestock. 21 His brother’s name was Jubal; he was the ancestor of all those who play the lyre and pipe. 22 Zillah bore Tubal-cain, who made all kinds of bronze and iron tools. The sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah.

6 When people began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that they were fair; and they took wives for themselves of all that they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My spirit shall not abide in mortals forever, for they are flesh; their days shall be one hundred twenty years.” 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went in to the daughters of humans, who bore children to them. These were the heroes that were of old, warriors of renown.

In both stories, kings (who were seen of as being semi-divine in the ANE) ‘take’ women as wives, who bear them offspring, who were men of renown.


(system) #9

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