I like your approach, Daniel, of finding a place of agreement by framing the discussion around where the line is.
However, with this statement I find another point that could be discussed: wearing masks now would actually let the economy open up faster, because mask wearing now can reduce the spread and the impact of the virus. So we can also talk about masking as increasing our freedoms by allowing life to get back to normal. I can send my kids back to school and restart some of their activities and go out shopping again now, because our community here in New England is doing a good job of masking
I wonder if part of the problem is our societyâs growing lack of ability to find middle ground. Everything becomes extreme false dichotomies, no matter what the topic, but especially in politics. And people only discuss things via social media, with the Russian bots involved to encourage more extremism on both sides, and people never sit down and have a friendly conversation.
My husband has had to go into work this whole time, though members of his office were split into two shifts and told to wear masks in hallways and common areas (optional but encouraged early on, later required by law). There was one guy that didnât wear a mask. One day, my husband asked him why he didnât wear one. He didnât tell him he needed to. He just asked why and listened. They had a good discussion, my husband explained why he wore one, and the next day, the other guy came in wearing a mask. Apparently, no one had ever tried to have a friendly conversation with this guy about it before.
Likewise, a lady at church that I walk with didnât wear a mask except when required by law. As we were talking, we got on the mask subject. I never told her she had to wear a mask. I just explained my reasoning for wearing one. In her case, when she heard that it was to benefit other people, that changed her mind, and she started wearing one to church (our state mask mandate excludes churches, and my church encourages but does not require mask usage⌠we stay distanced when inside and only sing outside).
I pray that this country can learn to have conversations like we used to. Maybe we need a presidential campaign slogan with âMake America Converse Againâ⌠before social media and conspiracy theories bring us down completely.
Good points, and the same argument is made by some regarding motorcycle helmets, seat belts, and could even be extended to stop signs, speed limits, and so forth. We have to balance freedom with security and safety, such is the price of living in community.
Thatâs great to hear that conversations like this are still happening â it seems sometimes weâre so quick to pick a side before even talking about something, and I can include myself in that too. Iâve been surprised at how many people still think that masks are only to protect themselves, and in that case it makes sense that theyâd be balking at a government that tells them what to do for themselves. My husband had a conversation with a guy at a small church he co-pastors, who was confused at why my husband had set up a plexiglass shield, so he paced off the number of feet that droplets can go indoors to show him, and the guy was pretty surprised â I think the visual helped him understand why people are hesitant to meet inside small buildings.
The line is a deadly viral pandemic with little or no herd immunity. I think most or all of us would be against the idea of compulsory masking for the seasonal flu or normal infections. Of course, all of use would be willing to mask up in order to visit a sick loved one in the hospital who may be immunocompromised, so there are obvious exceptions.
Iâm hoping thatâll be a silver lining of all this â that those of us, like me, who before this pandemic might have seen masks as something for people who were either paranoid or immunocompromised, will now have a much better idea of when and why mask-wearing can be effective and considerate, even after weâre past the point of requiring them in public buildings.
Iâm also personally considering wearing masks when doing yard work- my allergies go nuts certain times in the year and if I could limit my intake of pollen that might be a good idea.
My husbandâs been doing that since itâs been so dry â tilling the garden causes a lot of dust, so itâs nice to have all these cloth masks available to use instead of just a bandana or something (weâre getting rain this week, fortunately!)
I concur. I have always felt, based on the science, that masking would actually increase our freedom by mitigating the spread of virus. I feel strongly that wearing one is not a sacrifice but rather a way I can contribute to helping others.
Seat belts, child seats, speed limits, etc, etc, etc. We are a society of regulations which, while at times inconvenient, do serve to support the common good.
So just going back to your original question⌠I might humbly suggest that if this is essentially your response to those who are fearing violation of civil liberties in the mask question, you probably wonât have much in the way of fruitful dialogue. They would probably dismiss you as having no recognition of their core concerns, as you might come across as dismissive of the importance of civil liberties in general⌠since, after all, the phraseology âWe are a society of regulations which, while at times inconvenient, do serve to support the common goodâ, unqualified, sounds like something that could have been lifted right from Animal Farm or 1984, or communist China or the former USSR.
Thus back to my own question⌠if a state or local government decided to enforce perpetual and permanent mask wearing from this point forward, even after COVID no longer poses a threat, in order to reduce deaths from regular influenza, you would fully support such policy and put that in the same category as speed limits and seatbelts?
in other words, could you ever conceive of a situation where mask enforcement would be a violation of civil liberty? If not, then I fear the difference between you and your disputants is far bigger than the specific mask question. If so, then that is where you would want to focus the discussion⌠to show your disputants that you can in fact recognize their core concern about civil liberties, but you could then explain why you donât see this particular situation as one of those cases.
Interesting question. I have gone through this with some of my closest, and beloved, family.
One response is whether the intent of my governing body is ill. What ill intent is there in enforcing a mask? Even if there was no good science, in order to live at peace with all men, if I thought it was for good intent, I would comply.
If there was a truly malevolent scheme to isolate a given people group by monitoring their identities with a chip in the mask, that would be different.
On the other hand, many would say the death rate from the flu (much different from Covid, but arguing the minutiae here doesnât matter: the authorities have no conspiracy to limit my happiness or securityâquite the opposite) doesnât merit the bother of a mask in the general society (it probably actually does merit the mask during a bad outbreak, as many in Asia practice).
Wow. So if some civil magistrate, with all good intent, enforced wearing propeller beanies (as they sincerely believed the downdraft may push COVID droplets from your face) even if there was no good science behind such, youâd happily comply and go out everywhere wearing the propeller beanie?
I think it says a lot about our current society when people talk about their rights being violated by being mandated to wear a mask. If we look to the Asian world we are used to seeing them wear masks way before there was Covid. Their culture is an honor and respect based one. They donât wear masks for their benefit, they wear them to try and protect others. They wear them out of respect for others, not for their own benefit.
I would have thought the opposite. I agree, in Japan, particularly, about honor and respect, but that does not negate a personal protection and wellbeing motivation for wearing a mask.
As I understand it they wear them when they themselves are sick.
We also know that the standard non N95 masks that most of us wear only offers very limited protection for inbound virus particles, so not a great personal benefit when worn if those around us are not wearing masks. The primary purpose of wearing a mask, as I understand it, is to slow down or limit the particle spread from somone who has Covid, knowingly or otherwise, when they cough, sneeze or talk.
On that basis, I primarily wear a mask out of respect for others. It is not all about me and my rights
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