The virus is NOT a living entity. It is taken up by cells and replicated. It does not initiate anything.
Massive inflammation that destroys healthy cells is done by the immune system. The virus cannot explain this. And there are enough virologists admitting this with words along the lines of “we don’t know”.
This is semantics and yes, biology explains it. Once again, I’m going to ask you to stop explaining medicine on this site as if you are an expert in it. You aren’t.
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I am not an expert and I never said I was.
You are saying that what I said was wrong?
Doesn’t have to be. Something as simple as non-living lipopolysaccharide can induce massive cytokine release.
Yes, it does. There’s multiple peer reviewed journals dedicated solely to viral immunology. Viruses induce cytokine release and inflammation, such as through the innate system and TLR system which releases the cytokines IFN-alpha, IFN-beta, IL-1beta, and TNF-alpha.
In fact, I showed you this in a previous post, and here you are again acting as if viruses don’t induce an immune response. What’s up with that?
They don’t know THE SPECIFICS!!! For crying out loud . . .
No virologist is saying that viruses don’t induce an immune response. None. Zippo. Zilch.
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Yes, but you continually write posts to explain how the body works to others. And they aren’t accurate or scientific. Almost everything you write about medicine is wrong, yes, that is what I am saying.
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Almost everything you say about viruses is wrong.
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A good use of your time would be to absorb all the corrective information you can from those here that know most, and then go back to the mis-informed sources you’ve been using, and persist on their web sites to correct them using what you learn here.
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Pretty much. My wife is a senior program manager in a Clinical & Translational Science Center at a research university/medical school in the Southwest. COVID research has dominated her existence since March. The school’s HCQ trials were halted because of ethical concerns from adverse results, and it is one of 5 sites participating in a trial that uses a filter to remove cytokines from a patient’s plasma and then reintroduces it into their system. Your talk about both subjects is sorely lacking. I suggest you just stop talking, because misinformation about the coronavirus just results in more unnecessary deaths. You don’t want that on your conscience come Judgment Day.
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In common language and even in many scientific papers there is talk of a virus CAUSES inflammation but this is not the reality. The immune system identifies the foreign antigen and thus brings about the inflammation.
https://scholarships.uq.edu.au/scholarship/phd-scholarship-understanding-how-macrophage-sensing-rna-virus-infection-drives-inflammation
Influenza and SARS-CoV-2 are RNA viruses that can cause severe disease. Inflammation is a host defence mechanism, but in excess can drive disease. Host cells express receptors to detect virus infection, as well as innate defences called ‘restriction factors’. In this project you will investigate how macrophages and epithelial cells sense these viruses, by determining which receptors and restriction factors are engaged, and how this determines the overall inflammatory response.
No one understands why you find chains of causality so difficult to comprehend.
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Then a heart attack doesn’t kill anyone because you actually die from a lack of oxygen in the brain. Someone firing a gun and hitting someone doesn’t actually kill anyone. Once again, they actually die from a lack of oxygen in the brain.
As @Christy states, you seem to have a really hard time understanding basic concepts of causality.
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Well let’s see with the literature says because I don’t want to be accused of “explaining the medical science”.
a major component of the cell wall of gram-negative bacteria; lipopolysaccharides are endotoxins and important antigens.
On the same page:
A compound or complex of lipid and carbohydrate; the lipopolysaccharide (endotoxin) that is released from the cell walls of gram-negative organisms that produces septic shock.
What is septic shock?
Septic shock is a possible consequence of bacteremia, or bacteria in the bloodstream. Bacterial toxins, and the immune system response to them, cause a dramatic drop in blood pressure, preventing the delivery of blood to the organs.
The title here looks promising…
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0009898120302813?via%3Dihub
Cytokine storm induced by SARS-CoV-2
Authors: Peipei Song Wei Li Jianqin Xie Yanlong Hou Chongge You
But when we read further it says:
Systemic immune over activation due to SARS-CoV-2 infection causes the cytokine storm, which is especially noteworthy in severely ill patients with COVID-19.
Here is another one says something similar.
Special Issue “Virus-Induced Cytokine Storms”
Does the virus induce the cytokine storms?
In the abstract (this is behind a pay wall) it clearly states:
“Cytokines are critical for cell-to-cell communication within the immune system. Their induction after sensing virus-associated molecular patterns by pattern recognition receptors in or on sentinel cells is essential to the resolution of infectious diseases. However, excessive production of pro-inflammatory cytokines are a major clinical issue due to their association with a number of pathologies, including lung damage after infection with severe acute respiratory syndrome-coronavirus-2 (the causative agent of the coronavirus disease identified in 2019 [COVID-19]), related coronaviruses, influenza viruses and others. Indeed, many deaths associated with influenza, Ebola, dengue viruses, and coronaviruses are caused by grossly excessive cytokine responses that lead to severe inflammatory response syndrome and a state of shock with acute loss of blood pressure.”
I have personally injected mice with lipopolysaccharide (LPS) and measured a sudden and dramatic increase in plasma levels of cytokines. This is a non-living molecule and it induces an immune response. Non-living things induce immune responses all of the time, just ask people who are allergic to penicillin.
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You don’t seem to understand how important it is to state the matter precisely.
Consider, the statement “black skin causes a cop to open fire”
Yes, it happens and not only in the states. But if we accept this then Heaven help us.
The only situation we can consider is that the cop opens fire when they are protecting themselves and/or others from a serial killer, who is acting in a criminal fashion.
A pathogen, virus / bacteria/ foreign protein is acting in a criminal fashion in the body causing infection. The immune system opens fire to protect the cells from further harm.
In your examples the first case it is lack of oxygen to the heart muscle cells down stream from the infraction that is directly responsible for the heart’s failure and thus lack of oxygen to the brain.
In the case of a gun fire it depends on the damage done. If the heart is struck and can no longer function it then has an impact on the brain, i.e., the brain no longer can get oxygen and brain cells die.
The immune system is not making a conscious decision like a police officer does. The immune response is a deterministic system. There’s a big difference between the two.
And the virus is directly responsible for inducing the immune response in the very same way.
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The WHO, who are “the experts” and “evidence based medicine” administered in those trials about 3 times the recommended dose, which is know and in the medical guidelines. And they knew the side effects too. And maybe the trials you are talking about did the same. Then they halted the trials when people became adversely affected and/or died, saying it was a dangerous drug.
I have linked the video up above in another post of a British physician who discusses this matter. AND he says there was a Belgium trial done with the recommended doses on covid patients and they had a positive 30% recovery and no harmful effects nor deaths from the HCQ given.
So who is talking misinformation or should I say WHO is talking misinformation, while someone like me, pointing at the problem is named the villain. My conscience is crystal clear. And God knows it.
Do you know the WHO website so I can go and point to what needs to be said?
You said “and it induces an immune response”. So how did it “induce” the immune response. Don’t tell me the immune system cells had to be awaken “hey guys here I am come and get me”. Really!
@Ani99, greetings. What do you think triggers rheumatic fever or inflammatory arthritis? I am curious.
Thanks.
The classic pathway goes through TLR4:
It’s similar to starting a Rube Goldberg device. LPS binds to TLR4 and this triggers a whole host of downstream effects. NF-kB signalling is one of the major downstream regulators. Given how you think you know better than all those immunologists out there, surely you know about toll-like receptors and NF-kB signaling, right?
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