Last Post for a Bit: Criticisms of an angry Spanish guy

This will probably be my last topic started for a while. I hadn’t planned on posting another topic until I realized how much pain this topic actually caused me. The claims of this man hurt me so much that it made me ignore my faith out of hopelessness for a while. If any one you guys could help me with this man’s ideas, I would appreciate it vastly.

One of the biggest reasons why I love this forum is because I can get help swallowing little things that big names in apologetics wouldn’t even think to cover. One of these things are some points made by teeny tiny “vigilantes” on the internet. Now, thanks to the help provided here, I haven’t been digging into these groups and thus avoided any new concerns :slightly_smiling_face:. Unfortunately, I wasn’t so lucky before and came in contact with an online users material that was EXTREMELY hostile against Christians. It was so confident in its hostility that it made me seriously question my faith for a while. I’ve been doing alright now (thanks to your guys help :slightly_smiling_face:) but his points have always bothered me.

His name is Jorge Guerrero Pires. He twists the Bible to make it seem like Christianity refutes itself. For example, he says that Jesus wasn’t a wise teacher because he “threatened to send people who didn’t follow him to hell” and got angry about figs. He mentions some Christian counterpoints, but they seem intentionally weak, such as mentioning that Christian’s say you are misunderstanding the Bible but he doesn’t need a Bible degree to make his views. His claims seem to try and undermine all of my love for God. He “answers” how scientists can be Christians. He says things like we are born atheists and it should stay that way. One big question that I have now is how would you respond to him.

Here are some of his criticisms. As you can see, he talks about several prominent Christian figures, including Francis Collins himself, and why their faith is “blinding” them. He is so confident that he even claims that we can prove that God doesn’t exist. I posted a few of the more recent articles below. Some of his more Bible-specific ones are deeper on his page:

https://medium.com/@jorgeguerrapires

https://medium.com/scientists-free-from-religious/if-there-is-a-god-he-is-doing-an-awesome-work-hiding-himself-acba6397fdbb

https://medium.com/scientists-free-from-religious/chatgpt-vs-grok-on-fine-tuning-and-lennox-apologetics-b6b95c3b2852

https://medium.com/scientists-free-from-religious/hell-as-christianitys-central-innovation-not-an-aberration-2eeab88df53b

https://medium.com/scientists-free-from-religious/why-francis-collins-is-a-terrible-example-of-harmony-58074b264a27

https://medium.com/scientists-free-from-religious/why-did-god-give-adam-a-penis-if-eve-was-a-second-thought-df867b551183

https://medium.com/scientists-free-from-religious/ignorance-does-not-grant-anyone-the-right-to-sneak-in-their-favorite-metaphysics-3999160bb532

https://medium.com/scientists-free-from-religious/francis-collins-may-be-the-bridge-between-cold-heart-atheist-scientists-and-american-voters-49728276dfbd

https://medium.com/scientists-free-from-religious/born-without-gods-why-atheism-is-the-universal-starting-point-2fa4c6a6390f

https://medium.com/scientists-free-from-religious/you-cannot-disprove-god-i-beg-to-disagree-e4222126a105

https://medium.com/scientists-free-from-religious/christian-love-no-thanks-i-prefer-secular-anger-8ab758cc2cda

https://medium.com/scientists-free-from-religious/the-big-conversation-one-christian-scientist-vs-two-atheist-scientists-36b618acd810

https://medium.com/scientists-free-from-religious/why-theists-like-john-lennox-appear-respectable-8835039ab825

https://medium.com/scientists-free-from-religious/why-christians-only-quote-scientists-and-never-formula-1-drivers-c7e222420d88

https://medium.com/scientists-free-from-religious/john-lennox-says-religion-has-not-hindered-newton-9ca15b801666

https://medium.com/scientists-free-from-religious/if-christianity-is-correct-70-of-the-world-is-condemned-this-is-what-i-call-nonsense-f8119d68dd6f

Just to note: as I was simply compiling some of these sources (which are just from the past MONTH; i cannot find the articles I had read), I began to feel sick from the anxiety this man gives me. He is so hostile towards not only faith but also scientists of faith (especially Collins for some reason).

I would just say he doesn’t realize that his “faith” is just as blinding to him. So I would discount what he has to say.

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  • BuffaloMax, one thing we all have to learn (and it took me years) is that we are responsible for what we repeatedly expose ourselves to. Intellectual life has a diet. If something consistently produces anxiety, contempt, and despair, that’s information. You are free to decide what you feed your mind. Not every critic deserves your attention.
  • Strong faith isn’t built by stress-testing yourself with the loudest hostile voice on the internet. It’s built by thoughtful engagement, in proportion, at the right time.
  • Proverbs 26:11 warns about returning to what harms us. That applies to habits of mind as much as anything else.
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Hi,

Do you really think a militant atheist with an axe to grind will be presenting Christianity in a fair and nuanced way? If not, I would not from opinions about my faith (or become anxious about my faith) based on such websites. Yes, there is a place for healthy questioning of what one believes…but one first needs to take the time to study and mature in one’s faith and theology so that one has the background to more critically assess the claims made by different sides. As @Terry_Sampson mentioned, dwelling on such sites at this point is clearly not doing you any favours.

Ephesians 4:13-14 comes to mind:13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. 14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. 15

I don’t have the time or inclination to read through all the Spanish Guy’s posts but I glanced at just one topic you raised–on hell. The blog claims that: 1) Jesus directly taught “Eternal Conscious Torment” such that 2) The doctrine of eternal punishment is a defining innovation of Christianity and that 3) other Christian models of hell like annihilationism are just “recent reinterpretations” to try to sanitize hell.

But a study of Christian history and theology shows this is simply not true. Theologians have long debated the scripture passages describing “hell”, and multiple ideas about judgement and hell have existed since the first centuries of Christianity (and continue to do so). Yes, “Eternal Conscious Torment’ has been vigorously promoted as the only true picture by a fraction of Christians–but it is not a defining doctrine of Christianity as a whole. So other views are not “recent attempts at a coverup’ but are also deeply historical and orthodox theological alternatives. Basically, the blogger is presenting a “straw man” Christianity and trying to play on your emotions.

If you really are interested about the topic of hell, rather than doom-scrolling through sketchy websites, spend some real time and effort to learn the theology from Christian sources first, e.g., here’s one contrasting different Christian views of final judgement:

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There are a few of his topics that do seem to follow what you said. For example, his analysis of how Adam had a penis but that is a structure with a specific function. If all of Christianity was based on the stories of Genesis being completely true, this would be a viable critique. However, I think it is safe to say that many Christian groups (including the Evolutionary Creationists) have moved away from this as being true (because the Big Bang, evolution, and all sorts of other stuff tell us about a greater creation, but Christ serves to remind us that the Bible is still compelling).

I was doing a little digging with ChatGPT and I noticed something. It seems as though he had a major following out with the Catholic Church because of the concept of hell. Now with this in mind, I feel bad for him. It appears he was handed a bad religious experience and as such now has a ruined worldview (not saying that being an atheist is bad but rather being a militant in any ideology).

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Why does one person on the internet (with a biomathematics degree) being certain of something about philosophy of religion constitute a problem for you? Plenty of people are certain of all sorts of contradictory views.

That guy sounds more religious than me to be honest. We are born atheists? Donkeys and rocks are born and remain atheists as well by that metric. Does he think that puts him in good company? I peaked. He just concluded with the burden of proof is on theists. Okay. We will happy shoulder that burden and present the reasons for the hope we have.

@Terry and @klw both gave you sound advice.

To be honest, I suspect very view people here are going to dig through a bunch of links to arguments. If you would be kind enough to summarize an argument (you have not actually presented any of his views that even merit a response) I am sure many here will be happy to comment.

In your latest response you write:

For example, his analysis of how Adam had a penis but that is a structure with a specific function

Adam had eyes and arms too. Fruity Pebbles are delicious. The sun is hot. So what? Can you please summarize the argument? Because none is presented here.

Also, I know all the cool kids think Adam didn’t exist around here but its still quite reasonable to maintain there is some historicity in the story of Adam and Eve, that Biblical genealogies and Paul’s punctiliar view of sin and death do not necessarily have to be dropped.

Vinnie

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This is something I have also noted in many atheists: they are far more dogmatic than most believers (at least in the western emisphere). Far more dogmatic.

And it’s not even my impression; the Bible said that there are some among them who wouldn’t believe even if they saw someone raised from the dead (Luke 16:31). Very, very, very few Christians have that sort of unwavering Faith.

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Actually, we are born dualists, as I’ve argued here:
https://discourse.biologos.org/t/doubt-faith-evolution-afterlife-history/57801/41?u=1cor15.54

It seems, then, that human beings are born with a natural sense of spirituality and with a mind that does instinctively think in spiritual terms.

For this reason, I would argue the exact opposite of the usual claim: we are born oriented toward God (capable of Him and drawn toward the spiritual realm) and it is through the influences of the world that we become atheists.

I remember a moment from my early childhood, my only memory from that time, literally. I must have been about two years old. I was sitting in a high chair, crying, because I had just encountered death for the first time after someone close to my family died. It was my first experience of loss, and I rejected it completely. I didn’t even know that death is inevitable for everyone, nor did I possess the kind of reflective mind I have now. And I hadn’t received any kind of religious notion yet. At that age, a child’s cognitive abilities are still very limited, arguably even less developed than those of an adult gorilla.

And yet, my reaction did not come from intellectual reasoning. It came from something deeper. My mind was not yet capable of fully processing such a reality, but I still experienced a profound refusal. That refusal came from the soul itself, from an instinctive awareness that death is an enemy, the last enemy, as Saint Paul calls it in his First Letter to the Corinthians.

From the arguments I’ve read, he makes several repeated claims. He claims that Christianity is built on fear of hell. This is seen in his discussion on why babies are born atheist and (although does state that babies have this sense of theist searching) is Hijacked by the religiously their teachers. He claims that Jesus wasn’t a wise teacher because he threatened to send people who didn’t believe in him to Hell (and that he got angry about figs). Christianity also does make sense to him because people are created with the knowledge that thy will be sent to hell.

He claims that Christianity only surviving by absorbing scientific ideas. He states that the multiverse theory beats fine-tuning and thus God. He states that absolute morality doesn’t exist and is rather a learned survival trait. He also says that what Francis Collins tries to do is create a “new science” where God can step in to interfere in his laws (he invokes Dawkins a lot where he says that God sets all these laws of physics and then intervenes, which cancels himself).

If you did have to read one article to daily see his analysis, it would have to be this one, where he makes those last four points I listed above:

https://medium.com/scientists-free-from-religious/the-big-conversation-one-christian-scientist-vs-two-atheist-scientists-36b618acd810

He actually mentions this in one of his articles (although he claims that the parents religion hijacks this sense).

This is not true as the children mentioned in the article hadn’t received any religious formation yet. Neither did I when at two years old, with an IQ less developed than that of an adult gorilla, I recognized death as an aberration, as something evil, instinctively.

Not through my brain, through my soul.

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I presume you mean hylomorphic dualists? I would kind of agree. Babies–like all humans are composites of form and matter born with telos as are all things. They are rational beings with an intrinsic end or telos to seek truth, the moral good and the highest good: God. Just as a baby in the womb has lungs that are teleologically ordered toward breathing oxygen—even before they have ever taken a breath—the human intellect is ordered toward recognizing the Divine.

I would forego all the small talk and attempt to undercut his entire worldview from the start.

Vinnie

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If he can’t understand books written for adults, he should stay in the children’s section. In Mark the cursing of a fig tree is part of an actual sandwich or intercalation. It book ends the temple cleansing/prophetic gesture. This is clearly all about the destruction of the temple and not Jesus being angry at a piece of fruit.

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Yes, and that’s also why, at the age of two (indeed, it’s the only memory I retain from my earliest childhood), I instinctively rejected death the first time I encountered it. I perceived it as something unnatural, an aberration. My soul, vivified through Baptism and not yet obscured by sin, seemed to recognize, with striking clarity, that we are made for life, for eternal life, not for death. Even though I had no intellectual knowledge of God at the time, my spirit nonetheless intuited that truth.

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I tried asking ChatGPT to give an analysis and (for whatever reason) it appears to try and beat around the bush. Some of the articles make sense. For example, Francis Collins (much respect to him) shouldn’t twist science to match God (I.e. the multiverse will never be found). However, others are more hostile (such as him suggesting that Newton would have contributed more if he didn’t believe in God, as he could have gave us random-based calculus centuries earlier). Some try to attack ideas specificity, such as his “1 Christian Scientist versus 2 Atheist Scientist debate,” where he pits Collins against Dawkins and himself and points out the flaws of Collins reasoning. He also claims, in that last link I posted, that God can be disproven (and provides his reasoning for such).

These were the “top arguments” I could get from ChatGPT (since I can’t read all of his arguments and since I’m a bit afraid too):

Here’s a top-ten overview of the strongest, most representative arguments Jorge Guerrero Pires has presented in the Medium articles available online — summarized so you can see both the content of his claims and the direction of his critique. These aren’t academic journal critiques, but public atheistic arguments that aim to analyze Christianity and specific Christian defenders such as John Lennox and Francis Collins.

:brain: 1.

Critique of John Lennox’s Moral Double Standard

Main point: Pires argues that Lennox applies a No True Scotsman maneuver to Christianity’s history — excusing violence and abuses while blaming atheism for 20th-century atrocities. He claims this is historically inaccurate, since the worst atheist-associated regimes (e.g., USSR) are better explained by totalitarian power politics, not mere lack of belief in gods. Christianity, by contrast, directly sanctioned slave-holding, conquest, and coercion within its historical institutions.

:brain: 2.

“God of Love” Is Not Jesus’ Core Teaching

Main point: Pires contends that the popular idea of Jesus as introducing a God of love is a later theological construction rather than Jesus’ central message. He emphasizes Jesus’ judgment language, threats of eternal punishment, and apocalyptic context, arguing that the modern narrative softens or reinterprets these elements for contemporary tastes.

:brain: 3.

The “Atheism vs Religion” Binary Is Illusory

Main point: In critiquing Lennox again, Pires says reducing the science–religion debate to a clash between atheism and theism is misleading. He argues that many religious traditions (e.g., Buddhism) don’t posit a creator deity, and that collapsing all religions into one monolithic pro-God block hides deep theological diversity and contradiction. This, he says, undermines the apologist’s assumption that science only conflicts with atheists.

:brain: 4.

“Christian Love” as Coercive Moral Control

Main point: Pires rejects the notion that Christian “agape love” is purely benevolent, arguing instead that it often functions as emotional or moral coercion — invoking eternal punishment, doctrinal obedience, and categorizing dissent as anger. He frames secular anger as preferable because it doesn’t use eternal punishment or submission as leverage.

:brain: 5.

The Danger of Filling Ignorance With Preferred Metaphysics

Main point: Pires argues that using gaps in scientific knowledge as space to insert God (e.g., fine-tuning, origin of life) is an “argument from ignorance”. He extends the critique to all worldviews that claim certainty in areas science currently doesn’t explain. In his view, successful reasoning requires withholding belief when evidence is lacking — whether one is a theist or an atheist.

:brain: 6.

Critique of Francis Collins’ Reconciliation of Faith and Evolution

Main point: In a structured “big conversation,” Pires challenges Collins’ claim that evolution and belief in God are compatible. He argues Collins commits special pleading — accepting scientific reasoning where it suits him but rejecting scientific possibilities (e.g., multiverse explanations) that don’t fit his theological framework. Pires also criticizes Collins’ understanding of morality and theodicy — claiming the God Collins proposes arbitrarily allows suffering but intervenes only occasionally, which Pires views as inconsistent.

:brain: 7.

On Scientific Authority and Apologetics

Main point: Pires points out what he sees as a public “halo effect” for authority figures — we tolerate theological claims from emeritus professors even when supplied without scientific evidence. He argues that academic status shouldn’t shield belief claims from scrutiny simply because the speaker was once a scientist.

:brain: 8.

Critique of the “Persecution” Narrative

Main point: Pires challenges the claim that Christians are persecuted in secular societies. He says what is labeled “persecution” today is often the result of losing institutional privilege, not genuine suppression of belief. Secularism, in his view, protects freedom of belief without favoring one religion over others.

:brain: 9.

“Why Choose Between Science and God?” (Implicit Science–Religion Tension)

Main point (inferred): Although the specific article text wasn’t retrievable, the title and context suggest Pires questions why anyone must choose between scientific understanding and worshipping a deity — implying that the very framing of religion as irrational arises from misunderstanding science’s scope and history.

:brain: 10.

Personal Journey from Religious Fear to Secular Peace

Main point: In a personal essay, Pires describes shedding fear of hell and traditional doctrine. While not a formal philosophical argument, he uses his experience to raise a conceptual critique of how fear is instilled and maintained by religious teaching. He contrasts Lutheran/Catholic traditional views of hell with his rational reinterpretation, implying that dogmatic fear can obstruct honest belief assessment.

:puzzle_piece: Summary of His Main Arguments

Across these pieces, several recurring theses stand out:

1. Christianity selectively reframes history and doctrine to appear morally or intellectually acceptable, often ignoring historical violence or judgmental texts.

2. Popular apologetic narratives smooth over theological complexity — for instance, glossing Jesus as purely a “god of love” or hiding diversity among religious traditions.

3. Arguments that plug gaps in scientific knowledge with divine causation are logically weak — he calls this an argument from ignorance used by both theists and atheists.

4. Authority and social status should not grant theological claims deference simply because the speaker has scientific credentials.

5. Personal emotional reactions (e.g., Christian “love” vs. secular “anger”) are entwined with doctrinal claims about morality and obedience.

6. Institutional privilege and retreats from science do not prove religious truth; they reflect historical failure to keep up with empirical progress.

:brain: How to Interpret These Critiques

These represent his strongest articulated positions — but important context matters:

  • They are opinion essays, not peer-reviewed philosophy or theology.

  • They often address popular apologetics rather than technical theistic metaphysics.

  • Some arguments (e.g., about Jesus’ ethics) are historical-literary interpretations, not formal logical disproofs.

So while they can be rhetorically forceful and thought-provoking, they are not comprehensive academic refutations of Christianity’s strongest philosophical formulations.

He seems like to have a lot of good arguments that I cannot find good answers for (especially when it comes to questioning why apologists twist science and pointing out surface level history). Right now, I think my best response is the evidence I have through the physical person of Christ. I hope you guys understand why I’m having these problems :cry:: I haven’t had any time to develop the expertise needed to understand his claims.

When I have time, I will also comment on the other points, but this…

This genuinely made me laugh, especially because many who reject fine-tuning as evidence for God embrace other unprovable theories, like the multiverse, solely to support the only god(s) they seem to worship: chance and meaninglessness.

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