Apart from Him being stone cold dead for three days. The physically is superfluous.
Yes, but not all of Him. That is fairy tale, semantically, meaninglessly impossible. Faith canât make it so.
The trans-infinite, pre-eternal cannot invert Themselves to become a pinhead in Themselves. And if They could, why once? Halfway through eternal infinity?
Why do you refuse to think?
Beyond a primitive world view?
Trapped by its words?
âNot all of himâ???
LOL!
Do you have CCTV footage of the event or have you calculated the volume of the Son and the volume of a fertilized egg and realized that the incarnation must have been a tight fit?
- What fairy tale do you think I believe?
- Return to the beginning, i.e. the beginning before you began to play in this âsandboxâ.
- Adam, a self-confessed Sevent Day Adventist, whose sect is on record, publicly, as affirming the Trinity, shifted his focus to the categories of âGodâ and âthe Personsâ and got tangled in the yarn, and ended up with a conundrum: I. âDid Jesus raise himself or not?â, ultimately deciding that Jesus did raise himself, resting his case on the simple assertion: âDestroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up again.â
- Dale cited a good number of verses that affirm that Godâa âWhatââraised a âWhoâ [to wit: Jesus] from the dead.
- Enter âYer Worshipâ with an objection: Jesus, a human who, having been crucified, was ânon-existantââand had âno prior existenceâ, ergoâso it seemed to meââJesus did not raise himselfâ.
- Re-entered Adam with a âbutâ: Jesus didnât cease to exist after death, thereâs body in the tomb to contend with, and not just a body, but a carcass that gets resurrected. Now, IMO, Adamâs tangled in yarn again.
- Then I jumped into this sandbox and said:
- âYer Worshipâ, ignoring the fact that I said in my proposed âresolutionâ that the âFatherâ raised the âSonâ, a.k.a. âJesusâ from the dead, popped in to say: âAnd the Sonâ to which I responded âJesus is the Sonâ at which âYer Worshipâ decides to give me the benefit of your years of theological training and remind me who my âbettersâ are.
- Then Liam shows up, agrees with Adam, and cites John 10:18.
To be continuedâŚ
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What hifalutin, abstruse sophistry is this? What relevance at all does it have to the OP?
The OP is asking a relatively straightforward question from within the mainstream (even if a little to one side) of the central, mainstream Christian faith of the worldwide church. The OP asks from within the faith.
Might you be able to answer the OP of the OPâs own terms and starting from the OPâs own worldview? Might you be able to make it about the OP and the OPs context?
Itâs the OPâs question, not yours. Itâs the OPâs context, not yours. Can we try to respect the OP? Please?
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This is rational faith me old mucker. The OPâs terms are false. The OPâs worldview is false. The worldview that Jesus pre-existed is false. The worldview that the eternity and infinity external God the Son Person of the Triune God collapsed to a Spirit spermatozoon once for all infinite eternity and eternal infinity is false. Whatâs to respect? That a dead, oblivious, indeed non-existent person resurrected themselves? We are called to love God with our whole minds. Not insult Him with half-baked nonsense. Iron sharpens iron my friend. Nobodyâs putting any up.
Please stop derailing the thread @Klax. Either engage with the OP on its own terms, or move along:
- Participate with an aim to gain deeper understanding about orthodox Christian faith and/or mainstream science, and constructively explore the relationship between them. Users whose participation in discussions seems primarily focused on promoting unorthodox religious beliefs, idiosyncratic ideas about faith and/or science, or anti-religious sentiments will be asked to take their proselytizing efforts elsewhere. ~ Forum Guidelines
Thanks for your cooperation.
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I have Liam. It isnât orthodox at all.
I think a no proselytizing rule is a good feature on any forums. I thought it might be a good idea to finally look those guidelines over. But on my phone I canât seem to find them. Searching for them only turns up a thread several years old about a then recent change. It might be a good idea to figure out how to make a readily available link in the interface. Iâm thinking I must have been shown that when I signed up but if so I donât recall them now and more likely I didnât read them at all, assuming donât act a jerk would probably cover it.
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Did Jesus raise Himself from the dead?
My immediate gut-reaction response is that this is something I would ask Jesus to answer. In other words, I see no logical problem with either answer. Jesus and the Father are different persons so it is meaningful to say that the Father raised Him from the dead. But Jesus is God and became a man and it seems perfectly logical that a person like that can also raise Himself from the dead.
Jesus physical/natural body died. But unlike us, Jesus was without sin, so the spiritual body of Jesus was never dead and in need of resurrection. Though I suppose most believe Jesus took on the sins of all mankind, and so it was not His need for resurrection but ours. The physical/natural body is of the earth - part of the space-time mathematical structure of the physical universe. The spiritual body is of heaven and thus not a part of this space-time structure. And yet Jesus did visit with His disciples in space and time. Thus in space and time Jesus did go from being a dead physical/natural body in the tomb to a living spiritual body with His disciples, and that is accordingly a resurrection. But being of heaven rather than the earth, the resurrected Jesus did not remain among us as physical/natural bodies will do.
It certainly looks to be a complicated question for Jesus was at the same time like us and unlike us and His resurrection both like what we hope for and yet unlike us also.
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I assume the intent is to discourage doggedly foisting the same off beat or at least atypical beliefs regardless of the fit to the given OP. I think that is reasonable.
Ok, folks, the purpose of my post was to get conversation back on topic not start a separate tangent about what is or isnât proselytizing. Weâre fast approaching the dumpster fire precipice, so letâs all take a beat and get back on topic. Thanks all.
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Thatâs some alarm clock Jesus set. Wake up when Iâve been dead three days.
- It is my suspicion that the Son not only took on human form, but also appeared as Yahweh in the Testament:
- the one who walked in the Garden of Eden, the three âAngelsâ who met with Abraham, and as the fourth person in Nebuchadnezzarâs furnace with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. Orthodox Jew, Benjamin D. Sommer (Jewish Theological Seminary) wrote a book in which he discussed Benjamin Sommer - The Bodies of God and the World of Ancient Israel Sentinel Apologetics.
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Nonsense. He was being typically ambiguously oracular. A dead man canât resurrect himself. A dead manâs divine nature has no home, no vessel apart from divinity. A Person of God. Whom it never left. The Person who perichoretically shared an infinitesimal of His nature in a human person. Who opened a window in a human ovum that grew with the man. As He always has in every inhabited world for eternity. In parallel.
Itâs interesting(?) that there are parallel inhabited worlds for eternity when time in our cosmos had a beginning. Granted, time having a beginning is a little difficult to apprehend, let alone comprehend.
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We were studying that, and might include Melchizedek and mysterious wrestler of Jacob.in the group, but I have some problem with God being incarnate before Jesus. It sort of makes Jesus anti-climatic. But, I donât have the answers, just the questions.
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Pre-incarnate appearances would not be anticlimactic to those experiencing them! Think Nebuchadnezzarâs furnace. (Iâm not insisting that theyâre a thing but neither that literary criticism necessarily dispenses with them.)
Melchizedek the Prince of Peace is a wonderful and mysterious type of Christ.
Your comment got me to thinking about theophanies and this essay by Vern Poythress was a perfect fit with what you said:
âThe Old Testament theophanies are preliminary. They foreshadow and prefigure the coming of Christ in the flesh. The coming of Christ is their fulfillment, their climax (Matt. 5:17).â
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Mark, they are linked from the top of the Forum topic page.
Or at this link: FAQ - The BioLogos Forum
Back to the OP again.
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I see it now. It is under desk view. Thanks.
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