are you dissenting because the idea of God implanting sperm into Mary is something that a religious person cant stomach…are you therefore suggesting sperm is the result of sin and therefore evil?
- I’m dissenting because contriving a “work-around” to maintain Jesus’ descendancy from King David AND maintain Jesus’ sinlessness from his conception to his ascension is precisely that: a contrived work-around, which–in my view–was promoted by “educated” Christian Jews who had difficulty explaining how God could incarnate AND Jesus could be sinless from conception to death.
The entire biblical translation requires considerable understanding of Jewish culture of the day in which its various books were written…so much so that even in order to translate, the context of statements made has to be considered in every instance. I don’t view the method used to facilitate accurate translation as a workaround any more than the interpretation of Jewish genealogies for Jesus in Matthew and Luke. I would go a step further and state that science requires far greater workarounds for many of its hypothesise than does the genealogy of Jesus (not being anti science here, just making an observation)
- “In every instance”? I’m not afraid.
- In the link to my thread that I posted above, I quoted a portion of the Babylonian Talmud:
- Shabbat 145b-146a:
"Rabbi Yoḥanan then explained to them: Why are gentiles ethically contaminated? It is because they did not stand on Mount Sinai. As when the snake came upon Eve, i.e., when it seduced her to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, it infected her with moral contamination, and this contamination remained in all human beings. When the Jewish people stood at Mount Sinai, their contamination ceased, whereas gentiles did not stand at Mount Sinai, and their contamination never ceased. Rav Aḥa, the son of Rava, said to Rav Ashi: What about converts? How do you explain the cessation of their moral contamination? Rav Ashi said to him: Even though they themselves were not at Mount Sinai, their guardian angels were present, as it is written: “It is not with you alone that I make this covenant and this oath, but with he that stands here with us today before the Lord our God, and with he that is not here with us today”
(Deuteronomy 29:13–14), and this includes converts.
- Yevamot 103b:
“The Gemara answers: He implants filth in her and contaminates her, as her body accepts his semen. As Rabbi Yoḥanan also said, based on his understanding that the serpent seduced Eve into having sexual relations with him: When the serpent came upon Eve, he infected her with moral contamination, and this contamination remained in all human beings. When the Jewish people stood at Mount Sinai their contamination ceased, whereas with regard to gentiles, who did not stand at Mount Sinai, their contamination never ceased.”
- “With regard to the Jewish people, who stood at Mount Sinai and received the Torah, their contamination ended, whereas in the case of gentiles, who did not stand at Mount Sinai and receive the Torah, their contamination has not ended.”
- Shabbat 145b-146a:
- Although I’m told, by a knowledgebale Orthodox Jewish Rabbi, that the Rabbi Yohanan in the readings above would have been a 2nd century Jew–I think I remember–it’s not unreasonable to believe that he was not the Jew who came up with the doctrine of moral impurity, Jewish presence on Mt. Sinai being a “purification” from that “original sin”, the presence of “guardian angels” at Mt. Sinai standing in for later converts’ to Judaism, and Gentiles continued moral impurity.
- Jesus, born of Joseph AND Mary or Mary alone would have been sufficient to claim that “he stood at Mt. Sinai” and was cleansed of all moral impurity at the time of his conception, but being not being a genetic heir of King David would have–as far as “educated Jews” are concerned–precluded him from being a direct genealogical descendant of King David.
- Your belief that the inability of folks to recognize Jesus after his resurrection supports a conclusion that Jesus was “not quite perfect” is unfounded. I say, it would be surprising to find anyone who knew Jesus before his crucifixion “to recognize” Jesus after his resurrection".
- My claim, that the two genealogies are a “work-around” solution to a non-existent problem stands. No further argumentation will persuade me to think otherwise. Case closed.
I have not bothered to quote any of what you wrote above…i am surprised by your referencing here.
On the topic of the Gospel, why are you quoting a Jewish rabbi from the second century as a source of authority on the issue of Gentiles?
The Jews are well known to both deny the Messiah (particularly in the first and second centuries) and do not agree that the gospel was given to the gentiles to take to the world!
I am not following your pathway in the above post…its referencing seems deeply flawed for the reason I have given above and its conclusion based on that referencing is equally deeply flawed and indeed even irrelevant. I am not sure its even on topic?
Are you denying that Jesus the man was physically a product of thousands of years of sin? Whilst you contemplate this question might I remind you that scholars have debated for years the physical stature of Jesus and my understanding is that current conclusions are he was not of a significant physique or stunning to look at. He was just a normal average man! People were not attracted to him because he was awesome to behold!
You also missed the part where I said: “Case closed.”
why are you here Terry? If case is closed, then you appear to be a “youtube commenter” who complains that the video is boring and of no interest and yet continues to engage by writing comments!
To dissent where dissent is appropriate and give the rationale for my dissent. When inadequate counter-argument is presented, I close my case. You seem to have difficulty with my initial position and believing that your counter-argument was ineffective and unpersuasive. And now I’m at a loss as to what more I can say. So, go ahead, you can have the last word if that makes you feel better.
Yep Holy Spirit raised Jesus., and Holy Spirit raises all of us.
yes there’s injustice. you ask is there justice
I think injustice happens due to people want to be spiritual head initiator. Then there’s pride condemnation.
When we respond to God learning from God as God is our spiritual head, then there’s no pride condemnation, as we’re responders allowing God flow initiating. As we’re all of God’s spiritual body.
However on earth due to air, its easier to block God and try to initiate spiritual God head and not be the responder, then there’s all these God spiritual heads pride condemnation.
What are your thoughts about this?
That is pretty good evidence for the widespread existence of sin, and not just in the sole case you mentioned. The Bible says we are all sinners, and I certainly believe that! I definitely am, and I would hope that everyone could confess that they are too. Saying they are not is prideful, speaking of.
That is going to require some explaination!
The evil, the sin in the world suggests otherwise!
How do you ‘go to God’? How does that work?
What kinds of things do you learn? Can you list any? If you think you learned that the Holy Spirit lives in all of us, there is good reason to believe you are sadly mistaken, as I pointed out above.
I don’t think through words of sin. I think through relationship allowing Holy Spirit teach me in the midst of my situations and through it all
Plus no one explain how blood actually wash away sins, you all would say blood is a symbol, well that’s witch craft. Taking a physicals thing and attaching program to it 'till its so well crafted, then as time goes by the belief gets stronger. That’s what witch craft is right? This is a serious question. Also Jesus bones can’t be broken? Is that crafted too? How did God design this craft for? Using physical items such as blood and make it a program? = zero
I do know people program as they’re programmers another word for witch crafts., witch are the programmers and then crafts which gets stronger into beliefs as time goes by, passing it down from generations. The word Witch is universal so even Christians are witches, am I understanding this correctly? This is a serious question. I learn from @Terry_Sampson about Jesus caused zero with in the banking system with God. So there’s no dept in the banking system and when Jesus rose the everybody’s banking account is zero
How this was done is blood but blood is a symbol only right? However sheep blood can do this too and that’s symbol too., so animal blood and Jesus blood is the same right?
Nothing is impossible for God. if Jesus is God and He said so, then what is the problem?
Perhaps Jesus had a vastly different appearance after His ressurrection. (no resemblance perhaps )
You can call anything you want anything you choose, “God” or otherwise, but that does not make it true.
I have shown you why your belief that the Holy Spirit lives in everyone is mistaken:
You still have not said what he/it teaches you, unless it’s that he lives in everyone, but we know that is mistaken. Is there more that you are taught in the midst of your situations? You have only repetitively said that it happens, but without content. Teaching involves content.
A problem with a relationship is what sin is. I don’t know if you have or had a good relationship with your parents or not, but if not, you can at least imagine a good relationship. Breaking that good relationship by being disrespectful or disobedient and rebellious is analogous to what sin is with respect to our relationship with God.
I still need some explanation about what that means – I have no idea.
The Bible tells us (and we know from nature, of course) that the life of a creature is in the blood. When we sin (and we all do and have) and by our rebellion we have destroyed our individual lives with God and we have died to him and become like delinquents on the streets and disowned. (Once again, no, the Holy Spirit does not live in everyone.)
Jesus is how that life is restored, by accepting his sacrifice for us and believing in him, and we become ‘born again’ to him, adopted into his family. I’m sure that is not an entirely satisfactory answer and I don’t know that there is an adequate one. There is certainly some mystery involved, but in multiple places in the Bible, Old Testament and New, that is what we are told and I have reasons to trust it. When we believe in Jesus and trust him with our lives, then Jesus sends the Holy Spirit to live in us, not that we are immediately perfect and cannot still sin.
Block allow is what Holy Spirit teach me
it seems I keep relearning this too
There’s times I block and other times I allow
When I block Holy Spirit I feel spiritually hungry. So in the midst of blocking I allow Holy Spirit teach me how to allow Holy Spirit more with in my situations, and Holy Spirit teach me how to allow more and why I’m blocking, and as I’m allowing Holy Spirit, Holy Spirit feeds me and then I’m not spiritually hungry, as I’m being fed.
I understand more about block and allow as I understand more about learning from Holy Spirit why I’m blocking and how to allow more
I hope this helps understand mainly what I learn from Holy Spirit. If this doesn’t help, then I need to improve more how to explain this
The reasons so far why I don’t think about sin is due to I don’t know what sin is?
Example I witness briefly near by family who moved soon afterwards, a girl gets gum in her hair. The problem was according to this family it was sin for females to have their hair cut with scissors. The mother was fed up with something else and it seems by her daughter getting gum in her hair, instead of the mother who had this as a sin can’t use the scissors to cut the hair, she went into rage and torn her daughters hair in front of me, as I was in shock, as this girl screamed. I couldn’t get that out of my mind after wards, what did I just witness? Soon after this family moved and I never seen them again, but this stay with me in my mind and anytime I hear the word sin I think of this girl and the horror she went through.
As this scene stay with me I asked serious question what is sin also I ask seriously what is blood to be drain all because getting gum in hair and if a mother uses scissors., how many sheep needs their blood drain, or only one human needs to drain blood in case this mother uses scissors to cut hair.
I know this sounds ridiculous and easy to dismiss, oh its just a family, as many will explain what really sin is, but I can’t get past this, the girl in terror all so her mom doesn’t sin
i’m told blood is a symbol, I ask how does a symbol justify what? who decides what is sin, Hebrews with their 613 laws, or that mother who couldn’t reach those scissors or take the time to find a painless way to get gum out of hair.
I’m told anything is possible with God, then why is God limit to draining blood from sheep and a human being?
before the big bang, couldn’t God wash away all sins before allowing big bang happen, and also wash away all sins needing no blood?
These are serious questions
The reasons why I hadn’t accepted Jesus has a savior, should be what the question be and to explore?
First if I do accept Jesus as my savior from sins, I would chose the universal salvation way due to I think they think everyone is already saved, and if that’s the case then according to them I’m already saved correct., that’s how the universal salvation Christians think am I correct?
The main reason why I don’t accept Jesus as a savior of my sins is cause I believe I’m already accepted by God., so if I’m already accepted by God just as I am, why is it that Jesus needs to save me for and what is sin?
So my understanding is we all live forever, holy Spirit already lives in all of us. @Dale your understanding is none of us lives forever and all of us is rejected by God and no one has Holy Spirit living in them and needs Jesus to save them through accepting Jesus to save them and God will blame anyone who doesn’t accept Jesus
According to this I think where we differ is in the accepting area
I think we’re all already accepted by God and God lives in all of us and waits for us to allow God teach us
You think God doesn’t accept us and you think we need Jesus so God will accept us
This could go back and forth in a cycle spin
however universal salvation Christians would believed I’m already saved so I wonder how universal Christians would feel how I write? That would be interesting?
So @Dale do you have it a sin for females to cut hair?
I feel its ok for females to cut hair
@Dale tell me what is sin actually?
@Dale is love a law, what is unconditional love compare to law love?
It doesn’t, because block/allow has no real content, no ‘what’, not does ‘I’m being fed’. What are you block/allowing, what are you ‘being fed’. (If it is just ‘feelings’, feelings are ephemeral and subject to change – they not trustworthy and they can be deceptive.)
I think you did not really try to understand my explanation of what sin is earlier and you are throwing in all kinds of stuff that distract from it, maybe not intentionally, but in fact:
(Not accepting Jesus is, among other things, being disrespectful to God.)
Don’t edit it later or we cannot respond well to what you say or change. Add clarifications below.
Thank you for asking about Jesus’ sacrifice and making me think about it more.
You did not answer the latter question, but went on as if God is just Santa Claus with no coal available. Justice involves judgment, and penalty if there is guilt, and that probably involves some kind of coercion.
There is also the matter of sinning against a righteous and loving King, and if we think that such a One as he cannot execute fair judgment, we should maybe consider skeptical theism. And if we deserve the death for spitting in his face willfully (or ignorantly) because we do not recognize him a King, then we need to be rescued and saved from that verdict! A previously used analogy was calling a good queen a whore to her face. Immediate arrest (physical coercion) and penalty should be expected!
The short answer is that Jesus bore our punishment in our stead, if we will just but accept that gift at no cost to us except our pride.
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