Is William Lane Craig open to the possibility of evolutionary creationism?

You must not have done well in junior high/middle school English Lit. :grin: By definition, God is self-existent. (That is also why one of his names in the OT is “I AM”, and for Jesus’ bad grammar “…before Abraham was born, I AM!”)

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I don’t have to explain the ultimate origin of the universe

Actually, you do, because the problem just regurgitates. All you’ve done is push back the problem one step backwards. It seems you don’t understand the nature of the problem.

All you linked to was a media article. That doesn’t mean anything. Where’s the paper behind that media article? Where is the citation of other physicist evaluations of that paper? Not to be too rude, but I don’t find it convincing if you just cite garbage off the internet and expect me to take it at face value.

Good on @Dale for pointing out your pretty elementary error on the “where did God come from?” The fact that you repeated an argument that bad suggests you’re a novice.

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Then, by definition, the spacetime that produced our universe is self existent. Problem solved.

So to explain how a cloud forms I have to explain the ultimate origin of the universe? Really?

Would such a paper be convincing to you?

Then, by definition, the spacetime that produced our universe is self existent. Problem solved.

Except there was a beginning to space and time. Neither existed ‘before’ the singularity. You’ve heard of big bang cosmology? :grin:

It has always seemed to me that there are two distinct bases for postulating God. One is the subjective experience of an otherness within. The other arises from reflecting on how the universe seems to be moving toward greater states of complexity and freedom. Christianity isn’t the only religion which assumes the two great mysteries must have the same source. I can’t rule it out but neither do I see any reason to make that assumption.

False. By definition it is self existent.

I am talking about the spacetime that preceded the Big Bang. That spacetime is self existent, by definition.

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How do you have a ‘preceded’ before the beginning of time.

http://homepages.wmich.edu/~korista/hawking-time.html

Stephen Hawking lecture.

So to explain how a cloud forms I have to explain the ultimate origin of the universe? Really?

Fail, yet again. We’re trying to figure out how the natural world came about. You’re just saying “maybe more natural world is behind the one we see now”. You’ve failed to explain anything relevant. Nor have you even explained anything, since the multiverse is a bad conjecture at best.

Would such a paper be convincing to you?

Well, aquaticus, it DEPENDS ON THE PAPER LOL! You’re obviously gaslighting. I’ve never seen someone ask me to evaluate a paper before reading it. Obviously, you don’t know of any such paper and so are wasting time. You’re obviously willing to believe whatever you read on the internet, without evidence, in order to get your way around this bit of a problem.

Then, by definition, the spacetime that produced our universe is self existent. Problem solved.

Oops, another fail. It has been shown that the universe began to exist. So this wont work. Atheists really like their association fallacies - “if God has no beginning, then neither does the universe!” Of course, this is an association fallacy, not to mention a non-sequitur. God has no beginning by definition, but it has been shown that the universe has a beginning. And I know that really sucks for atheists. Atheist physicists suppressed the big bang theory, for example, for a good part of the 20th century. Unfortunately, they now need to deal with the reality of the beginning. Otherwise, people like me need to waste more time addressing pseudoscience.

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Yeah, the name ‘Big Bang’ was Hoyle meaning to be deprecating.

It wasn’t the beginning of time. It was the beginning of our universe.

Fail, yet again. We are trying to figure out how our universe came about.

The natural world is self existent, by definition.

No reason to spend time looking for papers if you are just going to claim the idea is impossible from the start.

Here are a couple of papers:

https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/0004-637X/832/2/96

I am not talking about our universe. I am talking about the spacetime that produced our universe which was self existent, by definition.

“My assigned topic was “What We Don’t Know About the Beginning of the Universe,” and I focused on the question of whether there could have been space and time even before the Big Bang. Short answer: sure there could have been, but we don’t actually know.”–Sean Carroll

https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2017/01/25/what-happened-at-the-big-bang/

Okay, believe what you have to – you really don’t have any choice. Given the facts, it doesn’t have to be true, however. The physics doesn’t prove it, it is just conjecture and a matter of faith (or lack thereof).

Apparently, it’s not about belief. I am just adopting the method you guys are using and putting “by definition” on everything to make it true by default and unassailable.

Actually, it is. You’ve decided to have to have proof of God demonstrated scientifically, and that’s not going to happen. (Among other things, science can’t address anything ‘before’ the big bang.)

:grin: I put it on one thing and that everyone has done forever, including middle school English Lit.

First off, that isn’t known for sure. I see no reason why science couldn’t find evidence of something that preceded our universe.

Second, I was told that God is self existent . . . because you say so. I was mocked for even questioning this, as if “I say so” is some sort of powerful argument. Surely you can see the problem with this, right?

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Yes, I see your problem.