Is the spiritual less real?

The “theory of everything” is about finding a single mathematical equation that accurately models all of the forces and particle interactions, and would also probably include the processes that produce universes. It isn’t a theory about explaining love or other emotions, not specifically anyway. It is much more about the very basics of physics.

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I try to stay out of conversations on these boards where people are having problems with doubt or crises of faith. I don’t feel it is appropriate for an atheist to come onto a predominately Christian forum and weigh in on these matters, mainly because people who come to these forums probably want to keep their faith. If there is one thing I believe in it is people finding what makes them happy and content. I only commented on the “theory of everything” so that you have a better understanding of where the scientists are coming from.

With that said, I won’t weigh in on the specifics of your post. My only advice is to consider why you find these questions important, and really get down to the foundation of what these questions mean to you. I know that probably isn’t much help, but I still wish you luck on your journey.

Thank you for being so gentle with your reply. It answers my previous question. Can I delete my previous posts?

I hope not, since I started it. In fact dealing with your sort of questions is pretty much the purpose of Biologos, as I understand it. Faith is a little bit alien to some of us who see the world in material ways, and it helps to know we can be honest and accepted as we are. I think you are having very common feelings, but often local church do not recognize that they exist.
By the way , to quote just highlight, a quote prompt will come up, click it and your post box will come up. You can insert quotes in the middle of a post the same way.

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Hi Jason,
First of all, welcome to the Forum!

Second of all, what you are doing here is not beyond the scope of BioLogos because you seem to be struggling with questions concerning faith and science and the relationship between them. For example, see the blog article below for some short excerpts from a discussion that took place on this Forum:

Does the discussion there help you in some way? Also, feel free to start a new topic on any of the questions you have.

Casper

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I’m a scientist, and I don’t feel that’s true. Every success I have points to multiple new things I don’t yet know–IOW, greater than infinity…

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I deleted some of my posts. If any of the others makes anyone uncomfortable I will delete those too.My intention was not to shake anyone’s faith.

There was no need to delete your posts! Your questions and thoughts are very welcome here.

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And it would help me to look at everything the same way. I don’t remember the thread or who posted it… but someone posted an animation on the internal workings of a cell. I had an emotional response to it. It was nothing like the 2 dimensional drawings I looked at in high school.

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VDon’t worry about it. If you look back, as Casper gave an example of, there have been lots of conversations in a similar vein. If anything, you have to fend off all the people giving advice.
As to science knowing everything, I have a relative who holds that philosophy (l think it has a formal name, but can’t recall) and believe me, he is a living breathing example of the Kruger-Dunning effect.
Even if “love” in the human sense could be explained in a biochemical fashion, as I suspect it can, that would not change things. It would just explain the mechanism. If you peel the onion back a layer, to me you are left with how to explain good and evil. If you accept there is such a thing as good, and such a thing as evil, I do not think science will ever be able to address that.

I want to be careful. I feel like, personally, I am on the verge of knowing my personal faith is as genuine as my faith that my grass will still be green tomorrow morning. I just need something or someone to give my way of thinking a quarter turn. I just down know what direction that turn is. The way I was doing it made it look like I wasn’t even close to that. The last thing I want to do is set anyone back trying to figure out my personal stuff.

If it was the cartoon showing molecular motors (kinesims) walking along microtubules, it wasn’t very accurate, most importantly in the omission of stochastic aspects of their mechanisms.

My personal favorite is images from confocal microscopy which uses fluorescent tags to light up the inner parts of cells. I have used this technique myself, and it makes me smile every time I take a good picture. A Google image search for “laser confocal cell” should find you plenty of pics and webpages to look at.

There are a few things I don’t think science will explain. Hard problem of consciousness being one of them. Can’t hang my hat on it though.

Well that is deflating. But it doesn’t matter to me because I wasn’t sure what I was looking at anyway. It reminded me of something Dawkins said… don’t recall the exact words but it was something about it only appearing to be designed.

I always wonder how he knows that? At the risk of dating myself, I used to watch cartoons every Saturday as a kid. My favorite was Bugs Bunny reruns. ( I stress the word reruns ).

In one episode it showed an interaction between Bugs and an animator. A hand with a pencil in it would come into the animation and erase part of the background. Then it would draw a new background that Bugs had to interact with. I had watched dozens and dozens of episodes never seeing that before. It never occurred to me that maybe those episodes had no animator. If he means don’t expect to see anything as obvious as a giant pencil with an eraser on it…well yeah. But if you want me to believe some ink spilled on some paper sitting on a tilted table, and maybe a fan was blowing air across the paper to create a full length episode of Bugs Bunny…well I might find that hard to believe. Just a little. At the very least, you can’t say it appears that way and be sure of it.

It does help. I sometimes get so caught up I imagine I am the only one feeling this way. 3 very good replies in there.

It shouldn’t be. It’s still amazing!

The two traditional questions that science can’t address are:

  1. Why is there something rather than nothing?

  2. Why this and not something else?

(Said the guy who lives in his mother’s basement and has never had a girlfriend, as he bitterly sucked the Cheetos dust from his fingers.)

This is very insightful. And you aren’t alone. Many of us could tell similar stories of being slapped across the face at some point and still struggling with doubt and fear. Welcome to humanity. But there is grace enough for all of us and it’s good to find people who’ve been down similar paths.

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Oh, my friend @Jason ! Welcome and please be at home. Yes, you can doubt. Don;t let anybody tell you you shouldn;t! It is part of the process of change. “Do I buy this car or that one?” to “Should I get married to her (or him)?” to "was that real? Did He really speak to me?

Having traveled the same road you are on, my frend, know this, "You may have doubts, but God never does. He loves you regardless of how you feel, what you think, or how “poor” your performance is. Fini. Done. Finished!

What you felt may have been a bodily reaction. But take a while to think about it in a quiet place. You are both a Body and a Spirit. This is a two part world. Try reading John chapter 3. See what Jesus had to say about the “seen” and the “unseen”. Think about the “fact” that science can only answer the “Seen” stuff. The “unseen”, the feelings, the love, the inner thoughts of things we have no explanation for.

And there is always “faith”. Faith is choosing to believe what you don’t know. It doesn’t mean you can’t have doubts. The thing is, is to always keep coming back to the problem. Keep returning, and thinking, and talking with others and feeling (both!)

Remeber what Jesus said “Ask and it shall be given, Seek and you shall find, Knock and it will be opened to you.”

Keep it up my friend. We’re all rooting for you!

Ray :sunglasses: )

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