Yes the AIG hyperevolution is a forced belief. The animals created in Genesis, according to ALL scholars except Day/Agers, were created in 24 hour days, not in long periods of time as Hugh Ross supposes. Hugh’s position is becoming harder to defend as humans with greater and greater antiquity are being found. As a believer in modern conventual science, as I am, Hugh has been forced to continuously push the creation of Adam And Eve back to beyond the breaking point. In his 1994 book, CREATION AND TIME, p. 140, he has the limit for Adam and Eve at 60,000 years ago, but by 2014 he upped it to 100,000 (NAVIGATING GENESIS p. 75). Another problem he has is that in his scenario, there’s no account in Genesis of the creation of Earth, sun, moon or stars; even though he thinks they were created in the time Genesis encompasses. In the “Summary Statement” view The ancient human remains found around the world, lived BEFORE Genesis.
Welcome, Mr Riter. I’m interested in what matters most to you in terms of young-earth creation?
I want to emphasize that though we believe in science differently (I believe God used evolution), I affirm that you are a brother in Christ. We (as I do with my YEC church) would, if together in one place, support each other by singing hymns, worshiping, and sharing Communion. Have you read “The Fool and the Heretic,” by Todd Wood and Darrel Falk? I found it very interesting as an example of a gracious dialog between kind people of opposing views (young earth and evolutionary creation).
Regarding nuance, would it matter to you if there were a scenario in which Adam and Eve existed, and original sin occurred, but evolution also occurred? I’m thinking of the Genealogical Adam.
Thanks.
I have some different views on Genesis 1. I view Gensis 1:1 as an executive summary as to what will follow. I believe it is days of proclamation, basically proclamations by God prior to the creation–that is, that Genesis 1 is the design of the universe, not the creation itself. When God said, “Let there be…” it is effectively what an architect says as he designs a house, “let there be a courtyard here”; 'let thee be a bedroom there" etc. Actual creation was in between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2
“ALL scholars”, huh? Have you read any John Walton?
I don’t know why you’re arguing against Hugh Ross in response to me. I don’t agree with Hugh Ross.
Again, the earth bringing forth animals is entirely consistent with evolution, and animals reproducing after their own kind is also entirely consistent with evolution. You haven’t addressed the points I actually made. You simply set up a strawman of Hugh Ross, an ID proponent that I disagree with as well.
Btw, I think Adam and Eve were roughly 6000 or less years ago. I just don’t think they were the “First Humans Ever”. Clues in the text suggest other people were around.
Well, yes our creation belief must not be a basis for fellowship. I can break bread with ALL Christians. I try to make my points, but do not DEMAND that anyone agrees. Some very good Christians have held varying beliefs over the years! The good thing about this site is it allows a wide range of beliefs, giving everyone a chance to see points they never considered before.
That’s a terrific sentiment, Brother! Thanks.
Randy
Yes, I’m learning a lot from others, too. My interpretation is, of course, the correct one. :)
’
I’m showing ancient parallels in these story lines… I do not seek to show they are the “same families”.
As for what the ancients would know about blood circulation, anyone who makes live sacrifices of animals, and the general butchering of animals for food knows quite a bit about arteries and veins… and how some plants seem to mimic the network of these pathways.
I refuse to be linearly descended from rhubarb George. Swiss chard, yes.
Okay… rhubarb OUT! But then we have slimy mud… I don’t know… I think rhubarb makes more sense…
Nonsense man! Look, it’s Eve herself, rising up from the primordium whence… WHITHER! Adam’s spare rib was cast! Positively Michelangelo! Could that be the hand of God Himself?! Who took the picture there in Eden?!
So long as you don’t hold we rose from demon Kale!
Turn round three times anti-clockwise and spit right now Phil!
Jesus and the Apostles believed in the literal Adam and Eve story!
Of course they did Mike, how could they not? Their epistemology was of its time and could not be transcended, even Jesus’. Although I’ve got a side-bet on Him being even more radical than He manifestly was about equality of outcome; that He could have had a hint of the divine postmodern about Him, His take on the Law was after all: ‘Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.’.
But let’s assume He couldn’t transcend the myths of His culture, what has that to do with us? Why is that a problem?
@Hornetnester is right–there are a lot of different points of view, and it’s beneficial to discuss them. I have been listening to @Jay313’s podcast. The first, “Adam’s Evolutionary Journey, Part 1” is a great comparison of different views on what being made in the image of God means. I’ve listened to it several times.
Adam’s Evolutionary Journey, Pt. 1 – Becoming Adam, Becoming Christ
What is the framework, the metanarrative for having points of view? What is the story of the stories?
Peut etre vous pouvez me l"expliquer.
Maybe you can give me your perspective.
Oooooh, Randy, metanarrative is not de rigueur I realise, un petits récit, peut-être. A modest localized narrative, as a grand scheme is not how reality works.
My story of my point of view, in the multiplicity of theoretical standpoints, has boiled down in 60 odd years to the tension between rationalism and faith, having been hijacked by fundamentalism 50 years ago. I chose the wrong parents. They had no answers. Nor did my peers or teachers. A cult did. For nearly 30 years. If it hadn’t deconstructed itself 25 years ago, I’d still be its creature.
Rationalism has pruned my faith down to the bone and beyond. But I still want to believe. And see the Holy Spirit yearning away at humanity, particularly on the Perso-Judeo-Helleno-Christian trajectory. Above all in the divine genius of Jesus.
You?
Rookie mistake.