And yet when it comes to whales being descended from a long line of creatures who originally lived on land it isn’t the length of the lines but the gaps in it which young earth creationists object to. Piltdown man and other such examples of experts being fooled in the past are exceedingly rare and yet you are quick to condemn them all and the eary field as liars and lies. You are inconsistent in how you apply your standards. If there is a day of judgement let’s hope that is done more fairly than what you are demonstrating here. Please try harder.
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No, Olin, you are missing the point. There is a massive difference between isolated instances of fraud by individual scientists on the one hand, and pervasive patterns of deception across entire scientific disciplines on the other.
If there really were a “long line of fraud and misinformation that continues today,” it would have to be systematic, pervasive, consistent and concerted, across multiple scientific disciplines, and carried out by millions of different scientists over a period of more than one hundred and fifty years. They would all have to be discussing and planning their deceptions behind the scenes to make sure that they all agreed with each other and presented a consistent narrative right down to the fine details.
If such a thing were happening, it would be the mother of all conspiracy theories. NASA faking the moon landings, chemtrails, alien spacecraft in Area 51, 9/11 being an inside job, and the US Navy covering up the existence of mermaids would be child’s play by comparison. I’m sorry, but conspiracies on that scale simply do not happen.
Seriously, this is the kind of thing that I see all the time coming from science deniers. They latch onto every discrepancy, every unanswered question, every isolated instance of fraud, and blow it up out of all proportion to give it a significance far, far beyond anything that could be reasonably justified. If anything is “a pattern of smoke and mirrors,” it is that.
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And likewise, God didn’t need 6 days to create everything. He created by command and it should have taken place instantly. Why do just dribbles and drabs over 144 hours? Incidentally this is why some of the early church fathers didn’t think the 6 days were literal.
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And what early church leader would you be referring to.
?
Origen
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It is systematic, pervasive and a consistent drum beat in academia, media and museums. It is all purported as fact.
Biology: Visualizing Life, Holt, 1994
“ You are an animal and share a common heritage with earthworms”.
Biology: Holt, Rinehardt,& Winston, Visualizing Life, 1998
“Monkeys, Apes, and humans are examples of primates…primates most likely evolved from a small, insect eating rodent like mammal that lived about 60 million years ago”.
Biology: Miller and Levine 2000 p. 757
“ But All researchers agree on certain basic FACTS. We KNOW for example, that humans evolved from ancestors we share with other living primates such as chimpanzees and apes”.
You can call it a theory, you can say it is your opinion but you cannot say it is fact. You have no evidence!
2009 “Ida” (Darwinius Masillae)8th wonder of the world.” The Holy Grail”, and “A Rosetta Stone”. Evolution finally confirmed. Ida got a website, a book, and a documentary on the History Channel and all were timed to coincide with the publication of the scientific paper proclaiming the missing link between humans and our primate kin.
Upon further study of the bones Robert Martin of The Field Museum in Chicago concludes, “ I an utterly convinced that Darwinius has nothing whatsoever to do with the origin of higher primates”. Again it is only another monkey/lemur like creature. What We learned was that it is an awesome fossil preserved and buried very rapidly from a major catastrophic flood. Ida was swept under the rug with little fan fare. So if you are looking for conspiracies, you should start in your own back yard!
This is just your baseless accusation again. You’ve responded to no point anyone has made against it.
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You could say that about gravity, or about electromagnetism, or about quantum mechanics. Some things are purported as fact because they are facts.
Does evolution fall into that category? I don’t actually care. But I do care that if you’re going to argue that it doesn’t, you must build your case on points that are honest, accurate, and proportionate. Citing isolated examples of fraud from decades ago as evidence for an extensive, pervasive and systematic conspiracy spanning a century and a half right up to the present day fails on all three counts.
I suggest that before you try challenging a scientific theory such as evolution, you read up on what standards you need to achieve first. Start here:
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Just so you know he is not a church father. He was not a disciple of Jesus. He didn’t even believe in the Trinity. He was a very smart man but way out there if you know what I mean.
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Depends on what you call a church father.
Pope Benedict thought highly of him.
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Despite the attempt at deception: “ As early as 1913, David Waterston of King’s College London published in Nature his conclusion that the sample consisted of an ape mandible and human skull.[9] Likewise, French paleontologist Marcellin Boule concluded the same thing in 1915. A third opinion from the American zoologist Gerrit Smith Millerconcluded that Piltdown’s jaw came from a fossil ape. In 1923, Franz Weidenreich examined the remains and correctly reported that they consisted of a modern human cranium and an orangutan jaw with filed-down teeth.[10]
From Piltdown Man - Wikipedia.
Regarding Nebraska Man: " It was originally described by Henry Fairfield Osborn in 1922, on the basis of a tooth found by rancher and geologist Harold Cook in Nebraska in 1917. Although Nebraska man was not a deliberate hoax, the original classification proved to be a mistake, and was retracted in 1927." That is almost a century ago!
Regarding creationist’s, just down the road from me is Carl Baugh’s museaum: Creation Evidence Museum - Wikipedia
Which Pope Benedict?
What baloney. Darwinius masillae, nicknamed Ida, was part of the Extreme Mammals exhibit at the American Museum of Natural History in Manhattan. (I cheated–I saw it at the museum.) It will continue to be studied, as scientists discuss it and debate its place in evolutionary history. (Discussing and debating is what scientists normally do.)
Where do you go to view fossils?
Yes, because science is self-correcting, unlike much of creationism.
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I propose you do the same. Please prove evolution if you can.
I’m not here to prove evolution. I’m here to ask for honesty, accuracy and informed, professional standards in how you approach it. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Pope Benedict XVI
But there were others, such as Augustine of Hippo
I am always amused when a YEC finds out that a literal reading of Genesis wasn’t always assumed, long before evolution/old earth came on the scene.
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I grew up with atheists and scientists and all they taught me including evolution did not stop me from becoming a Christian. No, the biggest cause for revulsion and doubt is encountering people which make Christianity seem like such a huge reservoir for deception and willful ignorance. The absurdity of taking some ancient text as an authority for disregarding all the evidence is quite astounding to me.
I saw some lack and poverty of thought the naturalistic worldview which sees the scientific understanding as the sum total of reality. It made me look for more in religion and I found an answer to that lack in Christianity. Reading the Bible I was impressed by many things and at the top of the list was a vivid awareness of the dangers and problems of religion. Thus I came to trust this book as an authority for Christianity and to consider it authored by God. And rather than disputing what I found in Christianity, evolution provided the best answers to the most profound challenges to it and theism in general – I couldn’t believe in Christianity without it.
But then occasionally I encounter people who used the Bible for evil, justifying slavery, abuse of women, genocide, racism, and concocting endless lies about science and evolution. It made my affiliation with them via Christianity a source of considerable embarrassment to me. It makes it rather difficult to see the good I have found in Christianity as outweighing all this evil done with it.
Oh… but there is light at the end of this dark tunnel. The use of the Bible for evil is actually few and far between. Most are good people and the majority of world Christianity accepts evolution also. One of the first to read “Origin of the Species” was an Anglican priest who congratulated Darwin on a job well done, saying it revealed the work of the creator in the natural world. So this strange U.S. cult making up lies about science and evolution is a minority, just like their ancestors who used the Bible to revive slavery after it was abolished in Europe. Clearly it is the people who are evil and not Christianity or the Bible.
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Which one of these transitional fossils is Piltdown Man?
You have that story all wrong. One man claimed the tooth could have come from a hominid. The rest of the scientific community disagreed, and the original author agreed and withdrew his claim. Why are you going on about this?
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Why shouldn’t one of the most successful theories in science be supported by scientists and communicated to the public?
Yes, that’s what the evidence shows us. If you aren’t an animal, then what are you? Are you a plant, fungus, or bacteria?
" With few exceptions, animals consume organic material, breathe oxygen, are able to move, can reproduce sexually, and go through an ontogenetic stage in which their body consists of a hollow sphere of cells, the blastula, during embryonic development."-- Wiki
You eat stuff, breath oxygen, make babies, and go through embryonic development. You are an animal, by defintion.
That is what the evidence shows us.
We do have evidence, lots of it:
Now, a word from Dr. Gould:
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