Interesting mix of people recommending Metaxas’ Letter to the American Church
“ . . . bold and insightful . . . Metaxas calls for pastors (and other Christian leaders) who . . . will be courageous enough to speak unambiguously against the massive anti-Christian forces that now threaten to permanently transform American society and bring to an end America’s role as a beacon of freedom for the world.”
— Wayne Grudem
Is it woke to see in the Bible that economic justice is fairness and desert (2 Corinthians 8:13-14, 2 Thessalonians 8:10)?
The sharpshooter rides his fallacy again.
We don’t normally let our discussions go toward politics here. But I’m glad in this case at least it was the occassion for you to bring your perspective out for everyone else to benefit.
So would you say this has changed for conservatives (or now been brought out into the open) over the last couple elections? It seems that derogatory names are invented for any who try to actually adhere to these princples (instead of being guided by the actual principal in play: tribal partisanship) … names that indicate: “You’re in my tribe in name only”. And for their transgressions of adhering to real principle or integrity are punished by them being driven out of the party. It is also interesting to see who is most excited about the current conservatives gaining or retaining political power beyond their representative numbers here in the U.S. Given all the actors who have most been cozying up to the “conservative” side here lately, has that been causing you any cognitive dissonance lately, given how you see political conservatism?
Thanks for the civil discussion here, by the way! It can get moved to private messaging if it gets too rowdy. (or perhaps still should for the sake of consistency.) But it is good to see disagreement aired civilly in the public square.
[Oh - and yes -I very much agree with you that our fallenness is a universal thing, and it would appear we probably agree that there will be mischief afoot among any leaders of any party who enjoy too much concentrated power.]
[And I do hope you’ll linger and even participate in more other types of discussions that are more the main business of this forum. As I said above, our little political tangents like this are more the exception than the rule. And I should probably be living up to my moderator role, by being a better example in that regard.]
Christy, “woke compromiser” and “silly song.” I’m not sure what you mean by your response. Since I’m on my own reconstruction journey, I view Phil as a fellow traveler: he’s evolved in his faith journey, which is about the best we can hope for from anyone. Good luck to you in your own journeys.
Sorry, I should have put in the proper emojis to signal I was not being serious. Most people here are woke compromisers in the eyes of the Eric Metaxas crowd. I love the Holy Post, my husband and I are Patreon supporters. I worked on the high school curriculum that BioLogos developed (Integrate) and Phil Vischer emceed our launch event a while back. He wrote and performed a song with Francis Collins.
“I love the Holy Post, my husband and I are Patreon supporters.” Christy, sorry that I missed the humor. Anyone listening to Phil has to have a sense of humor; I normally get those. Also, I know of your background; I listened to the LOG interview when the Integrate program was announced. My wife and I listen to LOG and THP (Patreon) every week! I’ll see you on the journey!
Just saw your post here. I also have just read the book…enjoyed it and thought he had some interesting things to point out. Is atheism dead? Well…eventually atheists themselves will be. I suppose the issue will live on, though.
You did not read the book, but you know what it is about and that it contributes little to “the overall discussion and is just a strategic marriage…” I have never read Metaxes before but wanted to see what he had to say… At least some of us “tried” to get through The God Delusion as well. (for another end of the spectrum).
Atheism as a thought process will always exist…but that is all that can be said…
Did Metaxas touch on the ontological and cosmological arguments? I vaguely remember Hitchens, Harris, and Dawkins claiming to have disproven them.
We also were not designed to fly…can’t do everything!!
Mervin…well I likely agree with some things you said, and then not with others. Of course, this is how it also goes. Your son’s challenge as to whether there were any socially “not conservative” autocrats in history …seems to me to be a false equivalence. How do you judge the politics of Attila the Hun by modern standards? That is, define “conservative” and then presume that “X” in the 15th century BC was opposed to gay rights. Autocrats generally glam onto “ideas that work” until they gain power and then they let loose with what is really in their hearts.,…which, of course, is their own power. Your son’s challenge sounds like a vast overstatement. The Nazis had camps for “useless eaters” and advocated their extermination…not exactly a “social right” position. Many of the early Nazis were gay, which – however you look it it – is hardly a social right stance. I think your son is taking a pretty black-and-white stance and applying modern concepts (simplistic ones as well) to a more complex issue. Yes I know…sad that before…Putin a right winger? No, a power-hungry fellow with allegiance to a totalitarian system that espoused atheism (NOT a right wing stance) and other non-right (or left maybe) things. Beyond his political aims, that is all to be said of him as to social stances…Was Genghis Khan a vegetarian peacenik? Well…no…but what of it?
Yes I do know that with a high degree of confidence. Would be happy to be proven wrong, but it’s BORING to have more Christians write books talking about how scientists can’t explain X or Y. Yes, fine tuning is interesting but it’s boring to just say God did it. Yes, abiogenesis is fascinating, but it’s boring to just say meh, too hard, God did it.
With most findings in science we find out how something comes about. As you say, settling for that God did it would be a departure. Feelings of awe in response to natural splendor are understandable and awe is sacred-confirming … just not on scientific grounds.
Mudskippers can breathe on both land and water.
well…who wants to be a mudskipper
Btter read Metaxes and see…and which Hitchens are you talking about?
OK…I am at my “reply” limit with Biologos here. I suppose that not reading a book is all right…many books out there and some worth reading but no time for everything. But this post was “supposed” to be about “hey didya read this book and whadidja think?” I read the book…having never read anything by Metaxes before…It was good to hear/read what he has to say. I had some skepticism about a couple things he said, here and there…though of course it depends on his sources. And he had some interesting details.
And if Dawkins can say that biology is “the study of complicated things that give the appearance of having been designed for a purpose” — then someone else (not Dawkins) can say “wellllll…did you actually say ‘design’?”
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be Genghis Khan.
The above quote (the longer one…not my fictional response to Dawkins) comes from page 97 of Metaxes’ book. He does have some interesting information…and as for the endorsements on the back cover— really? a professor of chemistry, computer science, materials science, and nanoengineering is “to be dismissed out of hand” because he sounds like (maybe is) OE, OC, or some flavor of same?
That just means it’s possible to breathe both under water and on land. Why give frogs this gift and not us?
Christopher Hitchens. Never read his brother’s book, but it’d be interesting to see if he wrote about those arguments.
I found Metaxas’ book on scribd and did a word search. Doesn’t look like he touches them. Too bad. While they don’t prove God, they do prove an infinite being exists, and that an infinite number of things cannot.
“Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” -Colossians 4:6
This is a place for gracious dialogue about science and faith. Please read our FAQ/Guidelines before posting.