I am afraid God will make me believe in creationism


(Emily) #1

People say, in addition to praying, that reading the Bible is the best way to get closer to God. And that God can speak through it. (Not audibly of course). The Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth is what I’ve heard.

So, I am afraid that when I start reading the Bible, God is going to persuade me to adopt creationist views. When I know in my heart they are false, and I think God would care more about me being rational and not ignoring what the evidence says. Which is that the earth isn’t 6,000 years old, dinosaurs didn’t live at the same time as humans, etc.

Am I worrying over nothing?

Did any of you guys ever have this issue. If so, did God help you see things differently?

I do believe God created all things through Evolution.


(George Brooks) #2

@Celticroots

Don’t be afraid of that … as long as you understand that the marsupials released from the ark couldn’t have raced to Australia AHEAD of lions, tigers and bears …

And as long as you remember that nowhere during the Egyptian 3rd to 8th dynasties did they ever record a global flood …

…you will only find a Cosmic personal god … and not a brainwashing god.


(Jay Johnson) #3

This is wrong. Since you imply that you are not a Bible reader, the verse is John 16:13.

“12 I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.”

The first thing to keep in mind in Biblical interpretation is context, which is why I included the paragraph, not just the single sentence in question. A serious problem among many Christians is called “proof-texting,” which is the practice of pulling one verse out of context to “prove” whatever point one wishes to make. Notice the context of verse 13. Jesus is speaking to his disciples, preparing them for his departure. He tells them that there is much more he would like to say, but they can’t handle it at the moment. What, then, is the solution? The Holy Spirit will come, and guide them into the truth. The context clearly indicates that it is the apostles who will receive the Spirit’s guidance into the truths of Christ, which is what happened as they wrote the New Testament. Jesus was not speaking to us and promising us that the Spirit would guide us into all truth. He was speaking to the apostles gathered at the Last Supper.

Many, many errors have been spread by people who read John 16:13 as a promise to every believer. They come up with novel ideas and interpretations, and since they believe the Holy Spirit guided them into these “truths,” no amount of reasoning can convince them that they are wrong. Many Bible “interpreters” lack basic reading skills, such as taking note of context in interpreting a passage. As a general rule, whenever someone says that the Holy Spirit showed them the correct understanding of the Bible, RUN, don’t walk, in the other direction.

All that aside, you will not grow to maturity in Christ without reading the Bible. In prayer, we speak to God; in Scripture, he speaks to us. These are the beginnings of relationship. My favorite passage about God’s word is Isaiah 55:6-11…

6 Seek the Lord while He may be found;
Call upon Him while He is near.
7 Let the wicked forsake his way
And the unrighteous man his thoughts;
And let him return to the Lord,
And He will have compassion on him,
And to our God,
For He will abundantly pardon.
8 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the Lord.
9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways
And My thoughts than your thoughts.
10 “For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven,
And do not return there without watering the earth
And making it bear and sprout,
And furnishing seed to the sower and bread to the eater;
11 So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth;
It will not return to Me empty,
Without accomplishing what I desire,
And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.


(Phil) #4

Remember that creationism includes evolutionary creationism, so hopefully reading the Bible will be supportive.
The problem comes if you read the Bible to reinforce pre-suppositions, as you can pull stuff out of context to support virtually any position. The Bible has some very clear teachings, but much is not clear. Jesus had to explain his parables to the disciples at his feet at times. We at times need to look for deeper meaning and rely of those of faith who have trod the path before to help show us the way.


(Mervin Bitikofer) #5

“I am afraid God will make me believe in …”

Well, and so what if God does? As one recent poster on another thread similarly discussed … our honest and pliable position before God would be to accept whatever it is that ends up being the truth, and have a hearty laugh at ourselves for having thought otherwise. This is what makes (would make) your response significantly different from that of a YEC poster to that thread who declared that he could not accept that God would ever tell him that evolution happened. In essence, he is then putting his convictions above God and declaring to God that “you’d better get this right according to my interpretations, or else I’ll have to reject what you say.” That should NOT be considered a tenable possibility for Christians.

Consider it this way … if God is not about Truth (in every possible sense of that word), then that could not be God [since God’s Truth is a more firmly established proposition in all Scriptural testimony than young-earthism is]. So our only honest position before such a One is to humbly accept whatever knowledge God gives us the grace to have. And if that final knowledge is that he created the world in six days, then we could register our amazement and ask all our “…so then what about …!” questions, but in the end it is just acceptance. What is there to fear? We would want to know the truth, right?

But since we don’t enjoy such direct access yet, we are given God’s Word (Jesus) and the apostles, prophets and their testimonies (the Bible), as well as God’s works (creation, and what we think is our best way of studying it: science) to try to arrive at what we think that truth is. So far it isn’t looking so good for the young-earthers on any of those fronts. But truth is truth … again; what is there to fear?


#6

No worries
If can accept that much of the Old Testament is allegorical and symbolic you should not need to believe in creationism as much else on this website shows.
God wants you to use your brains and intelligence, and means thinking deeply about what modern science shows. Don’t think of the bible as some innerant and infallible book that fell out of heaven and must be believed in all its parts. It was the product of culture over many centuries by people who do not know what we know now.


(Mervin Bitikofer) #7

BUT [… lest that comment be taken by others as triumphalism of contemporary knowledge over past knowledge --not saying you intended it that way…] it was written by people, inspired in God’s Spirit, who had something important to say to their contemporaries AND to us now, and which still encounters as much blindness and hard-hearted resistance now as it did then. I.e. --the knowledge they [still] have to impart to us is far more important than all the things that we fancy we may have over them.


#8

Of course. What I meant was that our knowlegde of facts about the world is vastly diifferent. That is not deny the important moral and spiritual truth that is conveyed by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, some of which is validated by similar moral sentiments in other relgious traditions. (Thats not saying all religions are the same but we do find some moral truth in the bible that is echoed in other traditions).


(Emily) #9

I go where the evidence leads as found by science. The earth is billions of years old. Dinosaurs and humans did not co-exist at the same time. I am not going to adopt an anti-science stance.

I can’t believe something I know contradicts all the scientific evidence. But I still believe the Bible is God’s word (although look at through a non-literal context.)

I think God would want me using my brain. I am not fully understanding some that was said in earlier posts.


(David W Opderbeck) #10

The classically Christian answer to this concern is that God never “makes us believe” in anything. Instead, He leads us to the truth, and it is always ultimately a joyful and freeing thing, even if it can initially be difficult or uncomfortable, to understand truth. Truth, beauty and goodness are “convertible” – what is really true is ultimately beautiful and good. (Again, not to say there aren’t ugly facts, like someone you love is ill or something – there obviously are many ugly facts – but those ugly facts are not the final truth about reality).

So, if YECism were true, it would be good and freeing to believe it. And if it isn’t true, it is good and freeing to understand the Biblical texts differently. With faith and hope and love of truth, the journey towards understanding can be joyful.


#11

I would just like to check with you on this statement. The bible makes some very interesting statements which I’d like to know whether it’s within the realm of science or fantasy. Things like:

  1. "So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, "
  2. “Elisha cut off a piece of wood. He threw it into the water at that place and made the ax head float.”
  3. " The mountain around Elisha was full of fiery horses and chariots."
  4. “For the jar of flour was not used up and the jug of oil did not run dry,”
  5. “Their clothes did not wear out”.
  6. “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth and all that is in them.” Exodus 20:8-11
  7. "“I am willing,” he said. “Be clean!” Immediately he was cleansed of his leprosy. "
  8. " Jesus called in a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out!” 44. The dead man came out, "
  9. The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, … and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations,"

Pure science indicates that these things cannot happen. So if you choose to believe ANY of them, you are surely adopting an ANTI-SCIENCE stance?
You can perform scientific experiments yourself to prove that those things just do not occur. So, what exactly is it that you believe? You believe in the age of rocks and the big bang and evolution and you trust that the statements made about those things are true. So which part of science are you going to reject in order to believe in Jesus as your saviour or which parts of the bible are you going to reject in order to believe in science?
Is the big bang, abiogenesis and evolution really scientific and TRUE?


Various questions from a YECer new to the forum
(Andrew M. Wolfe) #12

Dear Prode,

Welcome to the Forum! Your voice is welcome here on the Forum, and you have some important questions that it seems you want to hash through. The Forum is a good place to do it! You’re sure to get some lively discussion going.

I would encourage you to start a new thread if you’d like to ask a new question. Emily here had some very specific things she wanted to hash through… with like-minded evolutionary creationists. This particular thread isn’t really the place for the questions you’re asking here. Her comments were moved to a different thread by one of the moderators, but she’s already expressed that she doesn’t really welcome YEC folks attacking her here, and I can see from your recent posts that you adhere to a YEC worldview. I realize you disagree vehemently with some of her viewpoints, and you’d merely like to ask some respectful questions, and that’s okay. I would just encourage you to please start another thread to do so, and address the whole group, rather than Emily. :slight_smile:

Your brother in Christ,
AMW


(Walter D Huber) #13

You listed nine references from the Bible that you say (from a scientific standpoint) could not have happened. Let me recommend our book because all of them are covered in the book. The book is “How Did God Do It? A Symphony of Science and Scripture.” The premise is that God could have done all the stories in the Bible without violating the laws of Physics (that He created in the beginning) and not conflict with the tenets of Judaism and Christianity. People sometimes complain about "shameless plugs, but the book really aligns with what you seem to be looking for.


(Jo Helen Cox) #14

I agree that Jesus was talking to those present, but the Spirit of God lives inside each of us. If He did not speak to us, then He would not be much of a counselor or friend. He does not force us to do anything. He does not force us to think one way or another. He wants us to choose.

I am saddened by such words. This statement keeps God in a box. It does not let Him inspire or guide. It shows you do not know your God’s voice and refuse to acknowledge the possibility that He might want to talk to you. I believe that most of today’s beliefs were added by people who did not hear God’s voice but convinced others to believe in additions because of their ability to debate. Only a few of them said “God told me.”

As a general rule, we should know God’s voice and God’s ways to be able to know when the Spirit is not God (1 John 4).


(Jay Johnson) #15

Why is this dead thread suddenly resurrected? In any case, I know God better than you know me. Perhaps we should leave it there.


(Emily) #16

I agree Jo_Helen. Of course God speaks through the Bible. But He speaks in other ways. What’s gone on in my life is testament to that. If others don’t believe me fine. I agree that if God interacted with us in only one way I wouldn’t see Him as much of a friend. And of course we need to use discretion, but the leaders of cults who say God told them sometimes have a history of control issues or abuse.