I am EC, the Christian girl I am dating is OEC. And now she says raising children isn’t an option because we differ too much on that, and that children need the parents to be on the same team regarding such things.
I don’t mind raising my future kids with different approaches to creation. But she does.
Are there any articles on how to raise kids in such a situation? (And which she could read without turning her off.)
And if you have some advice, please share. Thanks!
The way I tend to approach it is that there are some things we should agree on as Christians, which I usually refer to as “the main things” informally, but more accurately would call primary beliefs. These are the Apostles Creed type things. There are then the “minor things” that we can disagree on but still consider ourselves brothers and sisters in Christ, which are things like infant baptism and those secondary issues that sometimes separate denominations. Then, there are tertiary issues that we can differ on and still be within the bounds of a denomination. I would put evolution and beliefs on origins there. Perhaps in discussing it, you can examine what the two of you consider is truly important. Children are literal, and having a OEC viewpoint is easier to understand as to God’s providence in creation for a child, so would certainly not object to that. The problem comes if we try to make the origins argument a primary thing.
I realize my previous post is long on the obvious and short on practical advice. As far as practical advice, perhaps it would be good to explore how you both understand scripture by reading some books or watching YouTube’s if you prefer, by Walton on early Genesis, as he really does not take a hard line on the origins issue, but focuses on how to understand what the text says. We can only provide the raw material that others can use to come to their own conclusions, but they do have to have that raw material to work with.
I doubt there would be much in the way of articles over this question specifically as it pertains to creationism, though there is probably a ton of literature on how parents who differ with each other can raise kids … which when you think about it … is all of us really. Show me a couple who “agrees” with each other about everything, and I’ll show you a couple where one of them (almost always the wife) has - either voluntarily or not - just been compelled to pretend she always agrees with her husband. While many (especially in my parents generation) managed to make something like that work, they did so at the expense of the submissive partner. And I wouldn’t wish to model my own marriage after that.
But your (and her) question is a little different … this isn’t just anything to you (or her) … but one of the main things. This one is important to you - or maybe more to her. It’s interesting that she is OEC. You should ask her this … what if you were YEC? Would that be a deal breaker for her? I’m half suspecting she might not be; as in - she’s probably okay with you being more literal than her, but not less? If that turns out to be true, then I’d want to know why she would tolerate that difference? What brought her to her OEC position, and how would she feel if a YEC then refused to raise kids with her because of her allowance to think a bit differently on something that a YEC feels is really important: a young earth. And if she thinks they ought to be flexible on that point, then shouldn’t she also be willing to be flexible, or does she really think she’s landed on the right answer for all time?
I know these are just arguing points which probably isn’t productive for a relationship. But you could also phrase it as a productive opportunity to raise kids who’ll have a treasure that many kids don’t get: a model of Christian parents who respect and love each other despite disagreeing over doctrinal stuff! Those kids would be extra prepared for a world in which they can live in Christian faith without it having to be one and only one exact brittle thing in their minds!
Children should be informed that the theory of evolution is the best scientifuc explanation for the history of life on earth, but that it’s an inadequate, overrated theory and is almost certainly a long way from the truth.
Take evolutionary creationist. Some believes that God somehow manipulated events to ensure humans evolved. Others think that God , through they exist, has nothing to do with how things worked out. There was wide enough of a range, and misuses and misunderstandings of the term creationist that I dropped it. I still believe basically the same thing I believed when I used the label EC but found that I prefer the term “Christian naturalist” more. Naturalism is that things happen naturally with no supernatural influences and that’s my stance. I don’t personally believe that God guided evolution. I don’t think God had a hand in abiogenesis. I think God’s interaction with life does not involve hijacking free will.
Some old earth creationist believe the same as the first type of evolutionary creationist. As in they think God used evolution to bring us about. Some believe that evolution happens, but that God made humans separately at some point.
It is a red flag though that your gf draws lines in the sand so easily. If she’s an old earth creationist, she’s at least somewhat open to science and maybe overtime, I am assuming yall are younger, she will be less demanding. If kids are very important to both of yall, and this is a line in the sand she refuses to move on from, you can either just say you’ll let her raise them with her belief.’by the time the kids are 13+ years old, or even 16+ and this becomes something they really think about you can just tell them your belief anyways.
It’s kind of hard to really offer advice on how to possibly introduce her to better science without knowing shat her stance is.
If she accepts animal evolution and several billion year old world, then presumably she accepts primate evolution. But if she accepts that’s but rejects humans evolved, I would simply focus on primate evolution a bit. Maybe she will connect the dots. Especially if she accepts the other species or humans. The same science and theories on how dinosaurs became modern birds is the same one on how some ancient primates became human.
If children are raised with the freedom to explore their curiosity, they will find their own way to an understanding of nature. For them to thrive, questions about origins should be allowed and encouraged so that kids can investigate, grow, and arrive at outlooks on life free of guilt and cognitive dissonance at some principle of the universe violating theology.
It is a shame of dogma that innocent curiosity is squashed, and answers and therefore the questions themselves become forbidden. In science forums, I so often see respondent comments expressing resentment at having to play catch up after having been raised in homes and schools which stifled real interest in science.
If she loves the idea of OEC more than she loves you, don’t marry her.
One should never be in love with one’s own ideas more than with the truth.
Her resistance to trying new ideas and testing what she thinks is true will cause you more problems than you can now imagine.
Thanks for the advice! I agree that marrying a very dogmatic person is not a great idea. I have to add though that her problem is not marrying me, but raising kids. So she doesn’t mind me having different ideas.
But she thinks it not good for the development of children when parents are not on the same line regarding this. I disagree with that. And these are good arguments IMO:
Focusing on the theological meaning of the text is a good idea! And maybe she then sees that EC is not a danger to the theological meaning.
Very good point!
Thanks! She accepts micro evolution, but not macro evolution. So perhaps I can focus on the extent of “micro” evolution. And maybe then she sees “micro” evolution can achieve quite a lot. (I think the example of whale evolution is quite clear.) And then move to the “gap” between micro and macro evolution.
Just be sensitive to how much time she may need to come to terms with various changes. I know my views did not “arrive” at their present state in just a moment, and nor is my present state where they are likely to stay. Though that said, the gift of time and availability of great mentors / peers / students such as God has put into my life have helped bring me closer to a lot of truth that I believe is much more enduring than my childhood fancies were. Allowing other people the time to experience that journey for themselves is also a gift of grace - and one that is hard to make allowance for at times.
The best approach (in any situation) is to get kids to address the text itself, which means educating them about the ancient worldview and such so they know that reading the scriptures isn’t something that can be reliably done in English, and then get them to ask how one of Moses’ first audience would have understood the Pentateuch, and so on through the different books/texts and their original audiences.
When they’re a bit older I’d point them at Dr. Michael Heiser’s presentations; he’s great at letting the Bible be what it is and showing what original audiences would have understood.
Stick to his earlier stuff is my advice; he starts to get more than a little obsessed more recently.
Choose their own books at the library, visit museums and science worlds, watch edutainment, collect rocks and shells, go to the aquarium and zoo, take a hike, use a telescope, look for falling stars, join a tour of research facilities on public days, projects for science fairs, turn a fridge box into a pinhole camera.
It is about developing an appreciation for the processes of nature, which is what origins is really about.
Only in the traditional British education model that treats students as vessels to have knowledge poured into them.
My sister had the privilege of teaching the kids on a Christian band’s ranch they had bought as their headquarters, and she did a wonderful job of not influencing: she used an adapted Socratic approach where the educator engages in questions and active listening and it is up to the students to find information and understanding. She brought her eight students (ages 8 to 14) ahead by better than two grade levels a year and never actually told them anything about subject matter.
Parenting and marriage are hard work and a partnership that does not do well with its culture being laid out from the beginning like an industrial contract vetted by a team of risk managers. In my experience there is much you cannot anticipate, much that will change you as individuals and as a couple. A contract-like agreement that lays out demands in such detail is going to be hard to maintain.
Your fiancee’s insistance in your children learning a particular view of anything that is different from yours makes me wonder what additional specific demands either of you will expect of the other, which will make for growing friction.
I wonder if the bigger issue here is how the two of you intend to handle the many, many decisions you cannot anticipate but will have to live with over the next 10, 20, 30, 40 years. Will there always be a threat hanging in the air (if you-then I) or incessent pouting of resentful resignation? The two of you need to deal with the broad philosophical aspects of life together now, because it won’t get easier once you’re in the midst of things. If you are not doing premarriage counselling with someone who can handle theological matters as well, I strongly recommend it.
