My question is quite a simple one. Most people in the world do not have an adequate education to make a decision, based on scientific knowledge, as to how to interpret the Genesis account. Does that mean they need to accept a theory on the basis of faith in the scientist of their choice?
My wife likes Francis Collins because he has a good sense of humor … I like Gunter Bechly because I am bald … excuse the frivolity but it is intended to make a point.
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I assume that adopting the interpretations heard from trusted pastors/clergy, teachers or other authorities is the primary way how most people get their interpretations. Not only about the Genesis account, I mean the majority of the doctrines of various churches.
That puts much responsibility on those who teach in the churches or write influential texts.
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What makes you think most people care? or have a problem?
And
Does it really matter?
I wonder how you find such a person?
Richard
I think you hit the nail on the head there, Richard. The only thing we need to understand is the gospel, and it is pretty simple . Genesis can teach us something, and perhaps understanding it at the place you are in life is good enough. The problem comes when you make it the gospel.
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Queen singer Mercury writes/sings “Nothing Really Matters to Me”, Bohemian Rhapsody. Now He’s not alive.
How do you know where he is now?
Besides, if you are going that way, he also sang
Who wants to live for ever?
I guess you do.
Shame it is beyond your control.
Richard
I only meant He’s not alive here on Planet Earth.
Most people are around the world are not asking Genesis to answer their scientific origins questions. The original audience of Genesis was not “educated” in modern scientific understandings either. I think they could grasp the main points. My question is kind of the reverse. Can modern people understand Genesis, or will they always mistakenly impose their own modern constructs on it and pretend it tells them things it was never intended to address?
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That’s a good question, and something I asked when I was YEC. It was easy to go from that idea of “trust” to the false dichotomy of “either you trust God or people.” In reality, we all have to trust people to some degree, regardless of whether the topic is science or theology. Choosing whom to trust is important. But what stands out to me now is the lengths that many apologetics organizations went to try to corner the narrative market. AIG put out all kinds of books, videos, curriculum, with the intention that it be used instead of that produced by scientists with scientific consensus in mind. So I had to ask myself, should I trust someone’s information if they are actively attempting to limit the scope of the narrative and discourage people from listening to scientific consensus? And as Christy said above, trying to use scientific information to interpret Genesis is not the best idea if we want to read it in context.
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My immediate response to the title was to ask…
How can less educated people understand Quantum Mechanics?
IOW I share the puzzlement of many here at why this question is important – like there is some implication of something important riding on understanding Genesis which raises some question of fairness. It suggests some sort of premise that I am unlikely to accept, like our salvation resting on understanding Genesis correctly.
Most people are going to read Genesis either in pursuit of personal interest or being led by someone who has spent time in either thought or education on the matter. In either case it is to promote greater understanding most typically after a response to the gospel message has already been made. It is only natural such understanding is not going to be immediate or easy, but part of a gradual process. And aid in understanding can come from many sources. If someone is reading it for a different reason, I have little doubt they will simply find whatever they are looking for.
Is there some implication here that understanding of Genesis shouldn’t require any intellectual effort or input even when at the very least it took input from experts to translates the text to a language a person can even read at all?
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True, but if their education is lacking they also accept a theology based on faith in the preacher/teacher of their choice. Personally, I don’t really care how a person interprets Genesis or if their theology or science is lacking according to an “educated” person like me. I care whether their beliefs and actions are in line with the gospel that Jesus explicitly taught and that I grew up with, or whether their beliefs and actions are more influenced by a Christian Nationalist preacher who preaches hate from the pulpit and/or a Right-wing influencer who teaches an anti-science, conspiracy-theory mindset on the internet.
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Faith should be in God and not any scientist. The essential and accessible spiritual interpretation of the opening of Genesis is that:
God made everything
Mankind has failed to honor God and follow His commandments
Therefore we are separated from God
And so we experience suffering and death
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Genesis is not about science and is not interpretable through science. It becomes problematic, when people treat it as such.
Inversely, science is not about the Bible or spiritual matters and cannot be interpreted by biblical or spiritual means.
A lot of problems are created, when people mix these up.
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That’s my immediate reaction as well. Even with the Bible you are trusting the human authors and those who preserved scriptures through time. Secondarily, you are trusting yourself to interpret the Bible, and also choosing who influences your views. YECs will tell us that we are such fallen and fallible creatures that there’s no way we could ever correctly interpret the scientific evidence. If so, how can those same fallen and fallible humans correctly interpret the Bible?
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How do you know that “most people in the world do not have an adequate education” for understanding Genesis? That could apply to Deuteronomy, the Book of Revelation, or maybe Hebrews…but it does not stop anyone. I think there is room for discussion in many parts of the biblical text–as with any other document. And if everybody in the world had “an adequate education” —they might still come to different interpretations…and assume that YOU and I have inadequate educations.
More like on the expositor of their choice – someone like Dr. Michael Heiser, for example, or John Walton.
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A few things. It is okay to accept two things you think are in tension as you hold out for a future resolution (e.g. A&E and science). I sympathize with the gist of your question if you are wondering why some of these interpretations are so educated and literarily complex (convoluted?). I mean, do we need to be masters-level educated literary critics to understand scripture? Who was God writing for? Interestingly enough, there is a push by some Gospel scholars today to disconnect the gospels from oral culture and see them primarily in the world of educated elites. This tends to render them mostly inert for historical Jesus studies. The most famous of them today is probably Walsh.
In this book [The Origins of Early Christian Literature: Contextualizing the New Testament within Greco-Roman Literary Culture], Robyn Faith Walsh argues that the Synoptic gospels were written by elite cultural producers working within a dynamic cadre of literate specialists, including persons who may or may not have been professed Christians. Comparing a range of ancient literature, her ground-breaking study demonstrates that the gospels are creative works produced by educated elites interested in Judean teachings, practices, and paradoxographical subjects in the aftermath of the Jewish War and in dialogue with the literature of their age.
Lot of moving parts in that but at any rate, the more literarily we treat the Gospels, the closer we get to views like these. Scripture is scripture either way and we don’t get to assume one mode going in.
At any rate, a couple of issues that may be helpful:
*Understanding ANE culture and mythology is not the gospel.
- How Genesis rearranges Mesopotamian furniture is only one aspect of Genesis and it is not the gospel.
- Without the Church most people simply can’t get things correct on their own. Jesus actually left behind a Church more so than scripture. It is the Church’s sacred duty, as opposed to the duty of an army of amateur individuals on the internet armed with sola scripture, to safeguard and interpret scripture.
- Ignoring the even more difficult Old Testament, note that teams of textual scholars (academically trained experts with university degrees) have to sort through and vet manuscripts and determine the critical Greek Text of the New Testament modern editions are based on. Most people in the world cannot read or vet these manuscripts.
- Greek experts and ancient historians need to understand what the text is saying in its original language and even try to see how this compares to what Jesus might have said in Aramaic. Most people cannot do this.
- Once we have a critical Greek text that scholars think they understand, a full team of linguistic and translation experts works on translating it into our own language so we can read it. They are academically trained experts and most people cannot do this either.
Once again, Jesus left behind a Church. He did not hand out Bibles and say, “Go forth with sola scripture and share your own personal opinion on proper doctrine in your own personal language with everyone.”
Most people were illiterate and the printing press had not been invented. I have access to scripture in my pocket on a phone with 60 versions and three million different people giving me three million different interpretations of what each verse means on the internet. That was not the situation thousands of years ago. People would hear scripture read and talked about in church or synagogue.
Certainly, diversity and debate about what a text means is very healthy. This has been normal since the begin of Christianity and Judaism before it. But your question is wrongheaded if it ultimately says: there is some pristine or perfect understanding of Genesis and unless we get it right, we can’t gain anything. Anyone today can read Genesis (after all the scholars have done their work in getting it to us) and see God is described as the sovereign Lord. He is in charge and made everything. You can also see that humans rebelled against God. You also do not need to be highly educated to think a walking, talking dragon snake that loses its legs, a tree of eternal life (compare to a fountain of youth), an angel with a flaming sword guarding a garden, God walking in a garden, or God parading all the animals before Adam to see if he can find him a suitable mate, a couple lacking knowledge being punished for making the wrong choice, might not be be historical elements in the text. There is absolutely nothing wrong with believing in a historical Adam and Eve though. What we learn from a study of God’s world just means the simple set of facts Christians have adhered to for 2,000 years regarding human origins become a less simple set of facts. The Bible was written for us, but not to or by us, thousands of years ago by many authors in different languages with different worldviews from our own. If you want to understand it better then you have to read it and study. Without knowing the cultural and literary allusions, you will miss them. And the reward for all your study? Once you become an expert at Genesis you can now disagree with all the other experts advancing different theories and arguing against your own.
Vinnie
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Especially when what they mean by “sola scriptura” is not what the Fathers who held that meant by it – what that “army” means by it tends to be “nuda scriptura”, and ends up IMO treating scripture with serious disrespect by forcing it to fit a modern worldview rather than letting it be what it is.
Even most people who have studied Koine Greek can’t do it. As one of my professors said, you aren’t really capable of doing translation until you can think in both languages, a process that requires something that is almost not taught any more: composing and writing in Greek (something my classes abandoned after the second year).
Nor to our culture, which is where YEC goes astray.
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Given the variations of Genesis and the setting, I honestly am not sure how well I understand it, even with the help of the best interpreters I’ve read- or if there is any one authority who really has put to rest all major questions about interpretation. It’s humbling! Thanks
Maybe that also reassures us that God doesn’t worry too much about that in terms of our relationship to HIm, though.
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What makes you think most people care? or have a problem?
And
Does it really matter?
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. What prompted my original question is that I have recently been exchanging posts with a few atheists on our forum and so have been considering the ideas of Francis Collins to see how much I can understand, and how much I can reconcile with my interpretation of the Genesis text, especially regarding evolution … my thoughts are still evolving 
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