Genesis 4 an answer to sin being irresistable

Just my two cents . . .

If by rule it means like a king rules over a kingdom, then I don’t think there is anything absolute about it. A king can’t stop all evil or bad things from happening within his kingdom, but he can be steadfast and try his hardest to stop as much as possible, and set a good example.

In this sense, I see the verse talking about addressing deeper psychological issues, such as addictions that lead you to sin. It’s about looking inward and finding bad habits that lead you to commit sin. Will there be a few slips here and there? Sure. However, I think the verse is more about creating a solid psychological foundation.

As a student of the medieval Franciscan philosopher Duns Scotus I came across some of his arguments about our freedom of will. As the beings that we are we most naturally follow the inclination of our desires and what we believe is good for us. There are many good things in the world that we need and may seek to have. So we have desire for them and it is called “the will to goods”. Of course that aspect of will and our affections can become depraved and highly selfish and disruptive to relationships. But says Scotus we have also been given by God a second capacity for a higher “will to divine justice”. We can to chose to go against self -willed desires to some higher good towards God and our neighbours and in if we dod not have this capacity as a divine gift in us we could never be converted to the way of Christ. The ideal way of life of the Christian is to hold together the goodness that may still be found the “will to goods” and the higher will to divine justice.

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Interesting observation Richard.

There are some considerations must be made in regard of interpreting this statement.

  • I agree that we are all responsible for our sin meaning that we sin because we choose to sin. That is why we are accountable for our sin.
  • The text did not say that we can conquer the sin without God’s help. It just said that we must rule over our desire. How is it possible to rule over our desire to sin? Then we can discuss whether God is needed or not without making any presumption.
  • Sin here is not just an objective and neutral thing. As this is part of garden narrative, you know there was another powerful being at play here that is Satan. There are times that sin could refer to Satan. If you read the text a bit more careful, there was a war going on here. What does it mean “Sin is crouching at your door”? This “sin” is more like another person who have the will and desires to have us. I am not saying that this “sin” is definitely Satan, but it is an equation that can’t be overlooked.

Yes, but the fact that none of us made it, but the Lord Jesus revealed how powerful our foe is.

We must differentiate those who actively and consciously reject God with those who have no knowledge of our God because of other reasons such as unreached people groups etc. While God certainly will not force Himself unto us, we are certainly drawn to Him if we are striving to live a good and righteous life. After all, God is about goodness.

Here lies the argument from atheism. The notion that we are born free of religion or any notion of God and that a relationship with God is something that comes later in life and must be embraced. Therefore, atheism is the norm of a human being.

However, if we study the Bible, we read that we were created by this personal divine supreme being to have this relationship with us. So this should be our starting point instead. A relationship with God is where we should start in this world/ universe that is full of wonders revealing who is our divine creator.

I think agnostic woud be the better dscription. Atheism is actually anti-God rather than non commital.History has shown that the need to identify God is almost innate, but the paganistic or pantheon moddels soon die out due to there being no iteraction.This is also why I do not understand cessationism, because God does interact if ou can decipher His mehodology,

Richard

So you think

thou shalt not steal, kill, bear false witness, covet…honour thy father and thy mother…

being asked to adhear to those commands outside of God is bullying?

Romans Chapter 8 explains this i think:

5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

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I remember in Hebrew class when we got to the Ten “Commandments” that we first noted that in the text they are “words”, not commandments, then examined the grammar and grasped that if they are taken with “I am Yahweh your God” as the first Word then they can be seen not so much as laws/rules as declarations of what God will make true of His people.

That leads to an important distinction: Paul is addressing those who are in Christ and thus have the Holy Spirit, not those “outside”.

Good point. It also ignores the context of the specific situation, i.e. this may be a statement true in that time and place for Cain rather than a universal assertion.

And there are situations where there is no choice that is good!

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Of course – that’s what “the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel” is all about.

Really? If you have leukemia, does free will mean you can live just fine while rejecting a marrow transplant?

That’s like saying that the captain of a sinking ship can’t tell passengers to get in the lifeboats or else they’ll go down with the ship. You’re making the assumption that the situation we’re in is neutral, whereas the Gospel starts with the supposition that the situation we are in is dire.

Jesus disagreed: “No one can come to Me unless the Father draws him”.

Don’t forget that this was written to Christians.

Huh?

Jesus said “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations”, not “Go therefore and make disciples of some from the nations”.

In this connection it is worth noting that this is probably the source behind Paul’s admonition “Be angry but do not sin”.

I generally think of these as admonitions similar to what a car designer might say to a car if it was sentient, i.e. “If you want to work as intended, don’t do these things”.

And that’s the usual source for the idea that it is impossible to not sin – I’ve actually never heard it derived from Genesis before this.