Facing the angry YEC neighbor

I bagged a Christmas dinner because someone who would have been at the table mocked my biology degree. A YEC. He called it BS.

Should I bother to talk to this guy? He thinks belief in YEC is a salvation issue and I told him I would ask the Institute for Creation Research even as I told him I am an evolutionary creationist.

I don’t know that there is any point to starting with someone who is already a mocker. You might point them to Psalm 1:1 and suggest that that is not a place he should be resting his tail. (But there are a few other verses on the subject in Proverbs.)

Ask about his wellbeing and that of his family. Ask about his life story. Just nod and smile and say nothing in response to matters of religion apart from open questions and encouragement. Or say nothing. At all.


As a YEC, there are some things you don’t talk about over Christmas dinner or with family and friends. If he and you would like to discuss origins or politics by email, that would be more the way to go if you can both discuss it civilly. Of course you can agree to disagree and let the matter drop. Keep studying.

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Exactly. I always showed an interest in Muslim colleagues’ religious activities, learned the correct terms, greetings and expressions, shared their food, never ate in front of them during Ramadan. I have been welcomed in the masjid. They are as much saved in the faithfulness of Christ as any other fundamentalist.

I guess it depends. Many people started out doubting it and changed their minds. But most people won’t.

I recently joined a Facebook group, some kind of creationist group that is predominantly, almost completely YEC.

I am pretty quick to block people. I’ve blocked like 4 in 24 hours. I’ve been told I’m going to hell like 15 times lol. I choose to respond. I don’t respond because I don’t think they are going to change their mind. I respond because I know there are young adults who face these same evil people in their churches and look for answers and so I do it because I hope that it will help someone reading through it.

If I was you, I would go to the dinner and I would sneak in cool tidbits about biology and evolution the entire meal. I get annoyed easily, but I don’t get angry easily. I’ll use my love for theology and nature as a way to funnel psychic vampirism at them lol. This last section was mostly just a joke. For me it depends on the people. If I dislike everyone there I won’t go. If I am friends with them and dislike one person I’ll go and I’ll be myself and that includes talking about things I enjoy. Normally in those situations they will simply ( by they I mean these anti science Pharisees ) emotionally exhaust themselves. You just have to remain calm and in control of the conversation and have fun with those you love.

Doubting what? Nobody changes their mind. The conversion rate from one faith to another is about 1:1000. YEC is a faith position, which has nothing to do with the all-saving faithfulness of Christ of course. Shared by Christians and Muslims along with damnationism. I don’t know what fundamentalist and folk Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists believe; whatever their foundation myths say I suppose. Minds are changed however. Mine was. But it’s rare.

I feel like you said the same thing lol.

You basically said it rarely happens.
I said it most won’t change their mind implying a few will.

As for the doubting I was referring to how the guy doubted the OPs degree which in this case is someone doubting biology and all the science tied up into the creationist debate.

Not really. Muslims don’t generally believe that Jesus was God incarnate. They consider him a prophet, and an inferior one to Mohammed. Their deity is also not the YHVH of the bible.

I agree with you on this point. YEC is a matter of faith because origins and past events outside historical ones are ultimately unproveable. That also applies to naturalism, old earth creation and evolution. Fortunately, there was one eyewitness to creation. Yeshua.

‘Outside of historical ones’ where there were live witnesses? Is that what you mean? Then we should stop trying to solve murders based on M.O. and forensics, and we should close all crime labs.

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Take a look at this picture:

I’m pretty sure that you would agree that this is a fossil of a fish. I am pretty sure that you would also agree that it was, in fact, once a fish. It doesn’t take a “naturalist” or an “old earth” or an “evolutionary” viewpoint to see this, and you don’t have to have “been there to see it happen.”

I hope you get the point here. The “were you there?” argument is a lie. Origins and past events outside historical ones are not ultimately unproveable. Not having been there may mean we can’t figure out everything about the past, but it does not mean that we can’t figure out anything about the past.

And I’m sorry, but the evidence that the earth is 4.5 billion years old is every bit as robust as the evidence that this fossil of a fish was indeed once a fish.


No, it’s a faith position. Faith is full of such. Which is why it has nothing to do with salvation.

Aye, it often feels like that round here Mi. We even agree disagreeably. Thanks for clarifying on the subject in doubt. The certainties of dead faith trump the reasonable doubts of live science every time.

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If you’re saying they must be saved by believing in Christ, then you are correct. If you think the Muslim religion is compatible with Christianity or God in any way, that is false.

I’ll bite, what do you see in that fossil? I see a fish that lived and died at some point. Did it reproduce? How did it die? When did it die? I don’t see a date stamp on it.

To reconcile old earth with Genesis, do you believe in the gap theory, where the earth was nearly destroyed by Satan and God had to reform it? If not, how do you see Genesis?

Have you ever read how many unsolved crimes there are? Even with videotapes, fingerprints, DNA and other clear evidence, it is a wonder any get solved at all. In many cases, it takes a major mistake, such as telling someone else who informs on them, that gets the criminal caught.

Why is that not irrelevant and sidestepping the question? That does nothing to disprove the validity and importance of forensic evidence. Did anyone make a claim that it solved all murder investigations?

According to YEC thinking and if their thinking were consistent, there could be no cold cases solved by DNA.

Yes, but that’s just an assumption. It’s just an interpretation. How do you know it was a fish? And how do you know it lived and died at some point? Were you there?

I hope you get the point here. The “were you there?” argument simply doesn’t work.

And what kind of date stamp do you expect? This?


Just because you don’t see a visual indication of age on that particular fossil, that doesn’t mean that there are no indications of age of any kind whatsoever on any other fossil or rock formation. Igneous and metamorphic rocks do come with timestamps. Ones called zircons for starters.

I’ll discuss reconciling an old earth with Genesis if you can discuss reconciling a young earth with Deuteronomy 25:13-16:

¹³Do not have two differing weights in your bag — one heavy, one light. ¹⁴Do not have two differing measures in your house — one large, one small. ¹⁵You must have accurate and honest weights and measures, so that you may live long in the land the Lᴏʀᴅ your God is giving you. ¹⁶For the Lᴏʀᴅ your God detests anyone who does these things, anyone who deals dishonestly.

And no, don’t give me any bovine effluent about “taking it out of context.” Those verses apply to every context. End of story. No exceptions, no excuses. Especially to science, which is all about what accurate and honest weights and measures look like in the first place.


“Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” -Colossians 4:6

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