I think this conspiracy theory needs building on. How about “Jesus was a time-traveling used-car dealer.”
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Glad to hear it poses no threat to you. It is still tosh whose purportedly supporting arguments crumbles like bricks made of sand (and no straw). Admittedly I also think the supposed exodus of a huge number of people from Egypt who settle in the southern Levant to also be impossible. However it may have a kernel of truth in that a small group may have left Egypt and merged with some people already living in the southern Levant. Their story became embellished over time.
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People may not always have the time, bh…but people have given you things to think about…see my remark on elsewhere
No kidding. It takes a pretty whacked out idea to put Adam and myself on common ground. It can be summarily dismissed on the Semitic and Indo-European language differences alone. Whatever the truth of the of the exodus story, the historical, commercial, diplomatic, people movement, and miliarty relationship between Egypt and the Levant was extensive and deep. The influences on Israel were from Mesopotamia to the east and the Mediterranean to the west.
You shared a book called Five Views of Exodus.
Two scriptures I learn that many lean on and choose which verse to discuss when discussing Exodus.
Exodus 1:11 is for the Thirteenth Century.
1 Kings 6:1 is for the fifteenth century.
Hey Riversea!! Thanks for asking… the below is from an article I found online. It is from hellowoodlands.com and discusses this strange folded discovery that Stripling and ABR have publicized. You can say it is not so much related to the exodus event that we have been discussing here, but if it holds up to archaeological and scholarly scrutiny, it is pretty amazing!! …And yes, this is the same Scott Stripling. If this discovery turns out to be legit and accurately dated, it is pretty interesting!! But also remember Dr Stripling for his other credentials. Thanks for asking. OK see below…
Scarcely the size of a postage stamp, the piece was unearthed near Israel’s Mount Ebal in 2019. According to the Times of Israel, the tablet may be one of the greatest archaeological discoveries ever. Stripling is the Director of the Archaeological Studies Institute at The Bible Seminary in Katy, and heads ABR’s excavation project at ancient Shiloh.
If further study confirms authenticity, the tablet would be the first written use of the name of God in Israel. It would “set the clock back on proven Israelite literacy by several centuries, showing that the Israelites were literate when they entered the Holy Land,” according to the Times article. If all goes as planned in the upcoming peer review, it could mean that the Israelites wrote the Bible as it happened instead of relying on memory.
I wonder what passions Moses had, especially when dealing with the Pharaoh and asking for more straw. Did this affect Moses passions in any way?
Who cares about passion? I think he’s more interested in accuracy
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In Egypt don’t burnt bake bricks because build with stone
I’m glad I was able to confirm that yes, this was the book you were asking about. Book called Common Prophets. I am reading the book you recommended. Called Five Views on the Exodus by Mark Janzen. Exchanging books was extremely helpful for me. Thank you.
Thanks Riversea. And I appreciate the view of the book cover and the brief quote from page 197.
As I noted in my response to Bh (which you also must have read). …I did take a look on some Indian websites and learned a bit more about this Indus Valley situation. Yes, it also mentioned bricks with straw.
A few years ago, when I first began to look into the whole concept of an “exodus,” a woman recommended that I buy a particular videotape. It was by some famous person who had found, she said, a chariot wheel at the bottom of the Red Sea.
I was open to the idea. I went on Amazon.com and paid $5 for this VHS tape and watched it. It looked like a crusty chariot wheel on the bottom of a body of water —maybe the bottom of the Red Sea, maybe the bottom of a bathtub. Who was I to tell? The man who discovered it (said he did), said into the camera: “I am scientist. I do things scientlfically.”
Years down the road, I discovered that this “scientist” was a former X-ray technician. And another “scientist” — that is, someone trained in the field of Eygptology and archaeology — noted that the chariot wheels in the Egypt of Moses’ time were made of wood and would not have lasted for 3500 years at the bottom of any sea.
In other words…listen to people, but verify their story. The X-ray technician was an X-ray technician…trained in giving X-rays, not unearthing artifacts in the midst of a desert. He only wanted to make money off gullible people. He was a fraud, in other words.
If you read my comments to Bh, there are several problems with this Indus Valley civilization experience.
First — it is WAY too early for the Exodus event described in the biblical text. That is, the events in the Book of Exodus occurred CENTURIES after the Indus Valley civilization collapse.
You have to follow the known evidence, Riversea. People in the ancient Near East experienced droughts and famines. When this occurred, they often sought safety and food in Egypt. This is a known practice. It is known by archaeologists and ANE historians about the actions of OTHER groups, not just Hebrews. They went to EGYPT not the Indus Valley. And there is NO evidence that the Hebrews EVER were taken captive and forced to slave labor in the Indus Valley.
You can read this in my response to Bh.
Second, the quote by Bharat on page 197 about Moses getting “consent of the Hebrew elders at Vadnagar” and then going to Mitsrayim —this is fiction. This is like the crusted chariot wheel at the bottom of a bathtub. The only text that talks of the Exodus of Hebrews (Jews) is in the Book of Exodus which is in the Bible. The text is very old. Bharat’s text is three years old at best. The Bible does not simply tell stories. It discusses events that the writers knew or believed really occurred. There is usually sense to it – that is, it is based on known historical data. There is NO suggestion anywhere in the last 3000 years or so of history that Moses or a group of Hebrew slaves lived and worked in the Indus Valley area.
I think that any number of people on this site have said this. No, they are not intimidated. Their faith is not threatened. They just know the account in the biblical text involves the area of the Nile Delta and the Sinai desert…and people heading to Canaan after a lengthy hiatus in Egypt. I have also mentioned that there are numerous cultural and geological details supporting their presence in Egypt in the mid 2nd millennium BCE…not a smidgeon of evidence for the Indus Valley.
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If you actually read beyond the words “that’s not correct” perhaps you might have found a response addressing your points.
It appears your preference isn’t interested in the counter argument…you simply wish to continue on with the conspiracy despite the very obvious stupidity of it.
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Adam…judging from the subtitle of his book (at least as I saw it online), this is because he wishes to promote an “all religions are the same so Peace Love Rock n Roll” sort of thing. It’s not a new approach to the futile subject of human beings “just getting along.” But it always seems to wish to ignore real differences and also to force all things into the realm of fiction --presumably so that it will not cause wars. Since nothing is true then, in this case, it is OK to shred the desire for historicity by making up something without a shred of evidence – and then insisting that all should accept it. Which, of course, is why “peace love and rock n roll” would never work.
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- You’re missing a great opportunity.
- Imagine a rewrite of the Transfiguration in which Jesus, Krishna, and Shiva meet on the mountain and talk while Peter, James, and John watch in wonder.
- Are you sure you don’t want to reconsider?
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For short distances.
Competitive endurance horses can travel up to 100 miles a day, but a typical horse in good shape would likely cover around 50 miles in a day with breaks for water and rest. Horses can travel long distances, but their ability to do so depends on their fitness level and other factors like breed, age, and training.
Cavalry Horses Did the U.S. Cavalry have remudas like the Old West cattle drives?
by Marshall Trimble | Jun 22, 2020 | True West Blog
“As far as individual travel went, a rider who was limited to 1 horse & wasn’t in a particular hurry might make as much as 25 or even 30 miles in a day, but he’d be limited to 3 days of travel & then he’d have to rest the horse a day.”
“The average march for cavalry is from fifteen to twenty miles per day. The walk is the habitual gait, but, when the ground is good, the trot may be used occasionally for short distances.
So over a prolonged journey say 25-30km/day. Not much better than travel on foot really.
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You mean a re-write to accommodate syncretism?
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I think the evidence (or lack of plausible evidence) has been made thoroughly clear by this point, and that no more time need be taken up debating alternate locations for the Exodus settings or promoting a books with those sorts of theses. Thanks for your participation.
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