Arguably our movie theatres and shopping malls are also “sacred temples.” I frequent both. Appropriate?
I don’t think there is any “common floor plan of most sanctuaries” except maybe for a large room with an altar and a cross or crucifix. .There are some classical floor plans for churches. But where are the Roman temples in the shape of a cross?
True, I should have said basilica rather than temple. Here is one comparison.
http://employees.oneonta.edu/farberas/arth/arth212/early_christian_basilica.html
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The Romans were indeed master architects. What are the pagan aspects incorporated into worship? Are you thinking of the Dies Irae?
btw, the layout of Solomon’s temple bears a striking resemblance to pagan temples in the area, except that depictions of God are conspicuously absent. It’s odd that the Israelites were forbidden to make graven images, yet were instructed to fashion cherubim over the mercy seat in the temple. Just one of those mysteries!
The very concept of a building as a “sanctuary for God” is contradictory to New Testament Christianity. Arguably it could come from Jewish sources, but, given the practices and teaching of the New Testament, it probably stems from pagan instinct.
Don’t you think Christians should have churches?
I think we should have church buildings but i don’t think we should call those buildings churches. But if we didn’t…so what? How’s the church in China doing…without buildings?
I agree, but I think one principle in missiology is to look at what the practice says to people - so for example, if a group are wondering whether to bring musical instruments into their church worship, this will probably work well unless there is a continuing association with an instrument and music played for calling spirits or whatever. If it is a stumbling block to some, it may be better to wait a generation. I presume that when God used ideas from ANE sources, he knew that the transition to a new meaning would not lead to confusion. God knows how to do this well. We don’t always!
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Interesting question. In Middleton’s analysis of Gen. 1-11, he sees it functioning “to recontextualize Israel’s core theological and ethical traditions in terms of universal human history,” and “the categories for this recontextualization are taken precisely from these Mesopotamian traditions.”
So, in essence, Middleton is saying that Genesis 1-11 does just what you’re talking about; it recasts Israel’s theology and beliefs using the cultural context of Mesopotamian mythology.
Another example.
Elijah’s curse in 1 Kings 17:1 has it’s origins in the Epic of Aqhat:
“As the LORD, the God of Israel, lives, whom I serve, there will be neither dew nor rain in the next few years except at my word.”
“Seven years shall Baal fail,
Eight the Rider of the Clouds.
No dew,
No rain;
No welling up of the deep,
No sweetness of Baal’s voice.”
We use many words in different ways. The word “church” can mean a building, a congregation, or the universal church. We get the meaning from the context.
I would argue that we have done ourselves a serious disservice by allowing the building to become the dominant understanding of the word in our culture.
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The word “church” can mean a building, a congregation, or the universal church. We get the meaning from the context. I think people understand that the tabernacle, the temple, the synagogues, the churches, the cathedrals, and the basilicas are/were buildings (portable ones, in the case of the tabernacle) associated with the people of God.
But what about your church? How does the sign outside your church building show that the building is not the church, and how has that helped?
Hi Beaglelady,
I’ll answer this if that’s ok. My “church” (as in a group of Christians) meet in a large room within a huge community center. As part of their duties our church’s set-up crew puts out sandwhich boards about the meeting. We rent the room for about 5 hours each Sunday. We set up and take down chairs, stage, etc.
We rent office space in another location where “church” staff do their pastoring thing: counsel, admin, the youth pastor has a messy office…
? Is there any instance in the New Testament where the word church refers to a building
We have a sign that has the name of the church on it. Unfortunately many assume that the sign is the name of the building, but it is really the name of the people that meet inside of the building. Just like “government buildings” are not “the government.”
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Who cares? words take on new meanings, and there is precedent in the OT with the tabernacle, the temple, and the synagogues. It’s perfectly natural to associate a congregation with the building where it meets. I’m grateful for our beautiful building. It means that prior generations were thinking ahead and thought to consecrate a sacred space for future generations.
It might feel like you’re all superior and “New Testamentish” by renting space, but I’ve been in that situation before. It’s perfectly fine for the short haul, but it’s very time-consuming setting up and breaking down, you’re at the mercy of the landlords, You can’t do the things you might like to do (provide space for AA meetings, easily change service times, have luncheons, and so on), and you never get to bequeath a sacred building to the next generation.
There aren’t any “youth pastors” in the NT either, but who cares?
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Well, no, because the N T didn’t use the word ‘church’ they used the word ἐκκλησία. ‘Church’ comes to us from Germanic, probably borrowed from Gothic, borrowed from Greek for “the Lord’s house,” so the English word has a different etymology and a different semantic domain that has the building more in view.
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Perhaps the xtian tradition we come from plays into the whole “church” question. From an anabaptist perspective with its ecclesiology, theology and so forth it does matter. Anabaptists, right or wrong, tend to see quite a gap between the Old/New Testaments.
Hence, from an Anabaptist perspective, I completely agree with fmiddel’s earlier comment about the term church getting confused. So we would rather stick to the NT usage of the term rather than our culture’s. We just don’t see the notion of “sacred space” floating from the OT physical imagery into NT. the sacred space is meant to be the people of God gathered and then disbursed into life/ministry/mission. We also don’t spend tons of time going on about the invisible church rather emphasizing the visible church gathered (that doesn’t mean we discount the rest of the church its a matter of emphasis).
And no using rented space doesn’t make us feel all proud and New Testamenty rather it makes us feel poor cause property values around here are truly obscene.
Anyway that’s the perspective I thought might be useful to bring to the question of the term “church”
Kind regards to beaglelady
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It took time to separate Christianity from Judaism. Luke begins and ends in the Temple.
50 Then Jesus led them out as far as Bethany, and lifting up his hands, he blessed them. 51 Now during the blessing he departed and was taken up into heaven. 52 So they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy, 53 and were continually in the temple courts blessing God.
Paul taught in the synagogues, although it didn’t always go over so well. Even Imperial Rome saw Christianity as a branch of Judaism at first, and the new faith was tolerated for a while. That would all change.
It’s not a culture war thing! We can use “church” to mean either the building, the congregation, or the greater church–the cloud of witnesses. We can tell exactly what is meant from the context.
And I stand by my comments about the cons of rented space. I’m sure It’s fine for the time being, but 5 hours on just one day doesn’t leave much opportunity to do the things you might wish to do one day.