Dominion mandate


#21

What? I said nothing about taming all animals. Besides, we don’t have enough humans.


(Reggie O'Donoghue) #22

But the writer of genesis maybe did have that idea


(Reggie O'Donoghue) #23

Until I find a coherent Biblical defence of animal welfare, I’m afraid I will have to leave the Bible behind. I’m sorry!


#24

Changing religions again? You might be interested to know that the SPCA was founded in London by a minister, the Reverend Arthur Broome


(Reggie O'Donoghue) #25

I care more about the Bible truth be told


(Jay Johnson) #26

Then why don’t you create one? Construct your own biblical theology of animal welfare. If you’re looking for animal rights activists in the ancient world, you’re not going to find them. It’s the very definition of importing modern concerns into an ancient text. You sure you’ve read Walton? It doesn’t seem like you absorbed much of what he was trying to say.

Edit: Well, I see now by your other thread, you took my advice before it was offered. haha. Carry on.


(Randy) #27

Seems that the subduing of creation has lost relevance for us who live in safe, paved streets. The ancient Israelites had to subdue Nature to survive.

As a child in Africa, I heard that people were afraid to walk from village to village at night because of the hyenas. Further south in the Yankari game reserve, a lion took a young girl from her campsite. You could hear her crying for help till she died. Even going into the remote wild of the dense Appalachian forests nowadays reminds you that it’s hard work to subdue nature and live safely. The Bible is written to different people at different times. I agree that it makes sense only in context.


(Phil) #28

All you need is a garden. I am battling various animals in competition for my garden fruits. Birds attack my tomatoes. A grey fox has found multiple ways to get in and eat the peaches that are nearing ripeness.(Did you know they can climb trees?) Not to mention insects and weeds. I have wounds from cactus, nettle, thorns and mosquitos. Wait till I see that Adam guy.


(Jay Johnson) #29

We forget how much different life was prior to the 20th century. We expect to live to at least 70. We expect our children to grow to adulthood. We expect the doctor to cure our diseases. None of those things could be taken for granted in the ancient world. Half of all live births did not survive to their 18th birthday, and most children could expect one or both parents to die before the age of 40. Death was as much a part of life as living.

And those of us who grew up in cities have an equally warped perspective on agrarian societies. Yes, they butcher their livestock for food, but they also protect and care for that same stock because their lives depend upon it! This was not some theoretical discussion for them. It was literally life and death. For us to look in the rear-view mirror and criticize them for not meeting modern standards of ethical treatment of animals strikes me as unfair and bordering upon silly.

Edit: I should also note that almost all of an animal sacrifice wound up being butchered and eaten. Most ancient temples also functioned as meat markets, since what was burned on the altar was all the inedible parts – hide, bones, fat, etc. The meat was given to the priests and the excess sold to worshippers.


(Randy) #30

Peaches already? I live in Michigan. We are just getting through dogwood! Now I’m in favor of global warming (kidding; it was wreaking havoc in SubSaharan Africa, where the desert was spreading and killing everything off).


#31

Exactly. The only reason I don’t live in fear of animals is because our house has good doors and walls, and there aren’t as many dangerous creatures out there anymore. Even if there were, things like guns and telephones (to call animal control) give me a whole lot more peace of mind than the ancients would have had when encountering wild beasts.

Oddly enough, now I think our fears have turned smaller. I’m a lot more afraid of ticks since so many of them up here can carry lyme disease, than I am of larger animals, since there aren’t many. Either way, you’d better believe I’m going to “take dominion” over any ticks that come within my sights.


(Reggie O'Donoghue) #32

Some level of violence is inevitable in agriculture, as Daniel J Stulac points out, and he convincingly argues (him being a farmer himself), that this is all that is being argued in Genesis, and that this ought not be a justification for ecological harm


#33

I thought you were threatening to leave the Bible behind.


(Reggie O'Donoghue) #34

I’ve decided my reasons were self-defeating, I’m a firm believer that we cannot work out objective morality on our own.


(Reggie O'Donoghue) #35

I now share Stulac’s suggestion that the dominion mandate is merely a description of what makes us human, it is not a command.


(Randy) #36

Do you have posting on why you believe this and I if so why you chose Torah and what parts you did for basis of morality? Thanks
Btw for fun…does anyone ever watch YouTube’s of the Maccabeats? Great way to enjoy OT stories with popular tunes.


#37

I love the Maccabeats! I especially liked their “reimagining” of several songs from Les Miserables in a Moses/Exodus context. :slight_smile:


(Randy) #38

My wife and I like that part too. Minyan
Man is also good.


(Reggie O'Donoghue) #39

I think it is the most likely of all the major religions to be true. I also feel attracted to it due to my love of the ANE.


(Randy) #40

Ok thanks. Taken down by poster To think more.